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POSTING RULES

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02-17-2017, 08:59 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 214
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When I'm tired I'll stick to either stopping altogether or, if I'm too tired after a long day at work, I'll do things like peel blue vinyl off of parts or deburring parts (no power tools!).
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02-17-2017, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilotmike
My level of patience is usually my indicator. As it gets later in my shop, and I get tired, I usually begin to get impatient with the process. If I keep working, I will likely make a mistake. Over the years, I have learned when to say when in my shop. Also, absolutely no alcohol until the session is over!
The other weird rule I have is: If I drop a rivet and don't see it fall and come to stop with my eyes, then I don't try to find it on the floor. It's considered a "dead rivet" at that point. This is because, in the past, I've picked up what I thought was the dropped rivet and it ended up being a different size. Another time, I found the dropped rivet, inserted and bucked it, only to find that it had been stepped on in the process and the factory head was bent and proud on one edge.
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I don't think that's weird rule. There are always several dropped rivets on the floor if I'm building, and while I have not actually seen their tiny little legs I know they have 'em because they run away and swap places at random.
I decided early on that there's a no-alcohol rule for anything other than shop cleanup, vinyl removal and sheet metal edge deburring. I may let a beer slowly get warm while doing those things... for anything else, the opening of a beer or the arrival of a non-helper signifies the end of the work session.
When my feet or back get tired, it's time to knock off because my patience gets short and I'm much more likely to decide that "airworthy" is good enough.
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Dale
Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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02-17-2017, 11:31 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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I can't imagine it's possible to build an airplane and not -- somewhere -- read what constitutes a properly set rivet.
The problem here isn't that one particular bucking bar was used or one wasn't used.
The problem here is that the builder didn't care and had no sense or interest in building an airplane properly and setting an acceptable standard of performance.
Ain't nothing you can buy gonna fix that.
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02-17-2017, 01:44 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Yardley, PA
Posts: 1,334
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Goodness
I probably set 1000 rivets before I stopped checking each one with a rivet gauge. Even now when I haven't riveted in a while I'll check the first dozen or so. I will throw in a CherryMax rivet in those few spots where I can't seem to get an adequate set.
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02-17-2017, 03:20 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB
I don't think that's weird rule. There are always several dropped rivets on the floor if I'm building, and while I have not actually seen their tiny little legs I know they have 'em because they run away and swap places at random.
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I always tried hard to find dropped rivets, because they do have those tiny feet; and, the next time I had to kneel on the floor, they would run and place themself directly under my kneecap!
Seriously, I am a bit paranoid about foreign object damage. I wanted to be sure a dropped rivet wasn't hiding inside a structure, where by Murphys Law it would jam a linkage somehow.
Last edited by BobTurner : 02-17-2017 at 03:23 PM.
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02-17-2017, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
I always tried hard to find dropped rivets, because they do have those tiny feet; and, the next time I had to kneel on the floor, they would run and place themself directly under my kneecap!
Seriously, I am a bit paranoid about foreign object damage. I wanted to be sure a dropped rivet wasn't hiding inside a structure, where by Murphys Law it would jam a linkage somehow.
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I don't want to give the wrong impression. I sweep and vacuum my shop (and project) regularly to keep debris to a minimum. However, when you're down on the ground, looking for a rivet, it's my experience that you WILL find one...just not the right one. 
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02-17-2017, 04:20 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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I have no dog in this particular fight since I'm building another aircraft type. I learned to rivet many years ago in a shop doing structural re-builds. When our QA inspector looked at my work one day and didn't find a single bad rivet I was so proud! Sometimes I thought he just circled rivets to make me mad, but in the long run he drove home some valuable lessons.
Fast forward a few decades. We now have aircraft like the RV12 where the largest portion of the rivets are pulled rivets. Pulled rivets are clearly NOT fool-proof, however they are somewhat more idiot-resistant. Perhaps there is a segment of the population which, upon inspection of their work, be advised to concentrate on a "pulled rivet" airplane.
Then again, with human personalities being what they are, the folks who will put together an airplane with multiple rivet deficiencies are likely the folks who either would not seek the counsel of more experienced builders, or would not accept that counsel if it was given.
Without doubt we must be vigilant and this discussion thread is a good opportunity to keep ourselves on our toes. Whenever I see where somebody else has screwed up I take that as an opportunity to ask myself if I have done the same or similar. It's this sharing of knowledge that makes the aviation community a true community.
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02-18-2017, 09:14 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 312
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I have very similar rules as those expressed above. I never use a rivet once it's taken a trip to the floor. There's just too much opportunity to damage a rivet by stepping on it, rolling over it with my stool, etc. Rivets are cheap, mistakes can be costly.
I also struggled with deciding when I was too tired to work early in my project. The typical day then was go to work early, leave work early in the afternoon, then work on the project into the evening. I discovered the hard way that when I got fatigued it only took me seconds to make mistakes that required hours to repair. My pattern now (with thanks to my flexible work schedule) is to get up early and get 1-2 hrs in the shop before I go to work. I find that within 10 minutes of getting up, I can have a cup of coffee and be in the shop completely alert and can work with laser focus over that 1-2 hr period. Even on the weekends it's easy to keep this early morning shop schedule, and I've come to covet my early mornings as part of my daily routine.
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Rob K
RV-8 N884RA under construction
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02-18-2017, 01:44 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Senoia, Georgia
Posts: 802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
I always tried hard to find dropped rivets, because they do have those tiny feet; and, the next time I had to kneel on the floor, they would run and place themself directly under my kneecap!
Seriously, I am a bit paranoid about foreign object damage. I wanted to be sure a dropped rivet wasn't hiding inside a structure, where by Murphys Law it would jam a linkage somehow.
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Everyone should be paranoid about foreign object damage (FOD). During a routine flight control check while taxiing out in an MD-88 I felt significant binding in the elevator. A week later I called the maintenance department to find out the cause of the binding. The airplane had just returned from depot level maintenance and the shop ends of some drilled out rivets jammed between the control cable pulleys! I always vacuum out my airplane at every opportunity in every crevice.
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Jerry Esquenazi
RV-8 N84JE
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02-18-2017, 03:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 51
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Condition of Builder
I don't go anywhere near my table saw after about...8pm. I still have all my fingers except when I miscount them.
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DanR
RV8
"Life seems so much simpler when you're fixing things." - Anakin Skywalker
Dues Paid 2020
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