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02-04-2017, 08:02 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hudson County, NJ
Posts: 1,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotjohnS
In my opinion it takes two to tangle. I doesnt matter who is right or who is wrong. Each of us is responsible for a safe flight. If i ever feel un comfortable with a situation. I hope i am a good enough pilot to recognize and resolve the conflict
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My immediate thought as well. A lot of indignation in this thread.
We've all been in this situation.
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02-04-2017, 08:20 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 633
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You've had unbriefed, unknown wingmen? Outside an ADIZ bust? Do tell! 
__________________
RV-6, bought from builder.
O-320, slider, carb, mags, FP
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02-04-2017, 08:31 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRV7
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PilotjohnS[/quote
In my opinion it takes two to tangle. I doesnt matter who is right or who is wrong. Each of us is responsible for a safe flight. If i ever feel un comfortable with a situation. I hope i am a good enough pilot to recognize and resolve the conflict
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My immediate thought as well. A lot of indignation in this thread.
We've all been in this situation.
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I was waiting for these type of comments to show up. That really didn't take long.
It was obvious the -8 driver had ADS-B, thus knew I was there and yet he still chose to fly up my tailpipe. Assuming his ADS-B alarm went off at about the same time as mine, he continued to close in on me until I made the first radio call. After that, without comment he elected to fly off my right wing wing.
Why I didn't bail out was simple, with someone directly behind me and gaining, a turn, climb, or descent may have lead me right into his flight path.
A call to him on the radio was the safest move, until he moved off my wing and even then it wasn't clear if he was trying to land or just fly formation.
In this case, I'm not sure there were two that were tangling. One was trying to and the other (me) was rejecting it.
To be clear, when we fell in line behind the Champ, there were no other ADS-B transponder targets in the area. I based on the closure rate of the -8, I suspect he ripped over the turn point (Walmart Distribution center) and caught us faster than he expected. Still, known he had ADS-B and flying into a crowded airport, he should have slowed down way out. After all, there were a lot of no-electric aircraft (no radios and no ADS-B) going in there, as there always is.
There was nothing this guy did that was safe.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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02-04-2017, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Greensboro NC
Posts: 23
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I'm sorry you had a bad experience today. While I am not the -8 driver being discussed in this thread I did fly my newly acquired -8 to TT today with my instructor as a very nice detour durning tailwheel training. This was my first time coming into TT (or any large fly in for that matter). I must say it was an amazing experience flying the arrival procedure with so much activity happening around us! Having my instructor with me added a large amount of "comfort level" and I can certainly say that had I been by myself in an aircraft I am not yet 100% proficient, I can see how this situation could have made me uncomfortable pretty quickly had I not been able to establish communication with the other aircraft. I guess all I am trying to say is that you never know who is in the plane you are flying close proximity to and what they are going to do and are capable of doing. But for me it was an amazing experience coming into TT, checking out all the planes and watching all the planes take off in front of me as I awaited my turn to depart! I am very much looking forward to the next time!
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02-05-2017, 06:12 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,009
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Can't Trust If You Don't Know
Bill is absolutely correct to be 'upset' about this behavior. If someone pulls in close without briefing, without communicating, and especially in busy airspace, I'm immediately thinking " I've got possible trouble nearby and, what's next"? Is he going to try to land next to me or worse yet, is he going to drop in close behind and possibly over-run me on the rollout. Should I land short and attempt a fast exit? I know his stall speed is higher. Should I slow down to allow more spacing for anyone in front of me and risk him passing me. Should I land long and hope he knows what he's doing? I've never been to Triple Tree, but I assume this is done with far less control than Oshkosh. So much of our flying, whether VFR or IFR, is done with the expectation that everyone is following the same playbook. When that doesn't happen, it's pretty tough to trust the next move will be something we expect.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
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02-05-2017, 06:26 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Amelia, Va
Posts: 268
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Adsb
This is why I am glad that I installed adsb out and now have (mostly) a full traffic picture. I am amazed at the number of planes I now see in or near the traffic pattern that are not communicating or reporting their position incorrectly. It has been a real eye opener for me
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02-05-2017, 07:27 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,012
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Bill, I love you brother, but I hear several things with this thread. First, the moment you became aware of what you felt was a collision hazard with your ADS-B info, you should have broken out. You didn't serve you passenger well continuing. Second, there are two sides to every story. And many times the perspectives are slightly different. Last, you decided to fly to a large fly in with a special arrival procedure. Sounds crowded. Why is having someone pop up next to you a surprise?
And yes, lot of wound up indignation here. But typical for this board.
Last, to the guy wanting to call the Feds. Really?!
__________________
Bryan
Houston
Last edited by Low Pass : 02-05-2017 at 07:30 AM.
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02-05-2017, 07:32 AM
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Moderator, Asst. Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 1,473
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I think the salient points have been made, lot's to consider. Let's let this one simmer.
__________________
Scroll
Sid "Scroll" Mayeux, Col, USAF (ret)
52F NW Regional/Aero Valley Airport, Roanoke TX (home of DR's Van Cave)
"KELLI GIRL" N260KM RV-7A tipper
Catch her on YouTube's "Because I Fly!" channel
Exemption waived.
Proud and grateful 2020 -=VAF=- Contributor
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