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  #1  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:00 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default Bad RV Behavior at Triple Tree

Today I took one of my neighbor's daughter to Triple Tree's Chili fly-in.

They have a well defined arrival procedure for their large fly-ins; fly over Wally World distribution center, on to the town of Enoree, SC, then left to the airport where you will either turn right and land downhill or cross over and land up hill.

Today the standard pattern was to cross over and land up hill.

I was following a Cessna to the distribution center and was four miles behind when a Champ cut in front of us. No problem for the -9 and I slowed down to stay exactly two miles behind it. (I've never seen a champ with a transponder before.)

just before we reached the town of Enoree my ADS-B started going crazy and warning of traffic 100 to 200 feet above us, less than a 1/4 mile and closing fast.

I could see the N-number on the SkyView so I called them up by number asking if they had us in site but received no reply and they kept coming.

Needless to say, my passenger was a bit concerned as was I.

Finally they stepped out to the right side and stayed there, about 50 to 100 yards off our rightwing through the entire inbound procedure, without talking, even when called by N-number. It was at this time I realized it was an RV-8.

The -8 stayed there through the pattern but I was also down to about 70 knots, following the Champ.

With no idea what the guy was going to do, I continued following the Champ but did notice the -8 rocked his wings.

All I was thinking at this time was what was this yahoo -8 driver going to do and so did the "controllers" at Triple Tree.

I made one of the shortest and quickest landings ever and got off the runway at the end of the first lake. (I probably should have landed long but I know the -8 can't fly final at the 55 knots we were doing to give the Champ some room.)

After securing the plane I walked over to discuss the situation with the -8 driver and all he had to say was that he "had us in sight" and when I asked him why he didn't respond to my radio calls, he said, "You are not supposed to use your radio when coming in here."

Well, that may be true, unless there is a dangerous situation and running up someone's tail is a dangerous situation.

I don't mind flying formation with someone I know, when prearranged and I don't mind formation takeoffs and landings with someone I know, again when prearranged but having this guy come up like he did and not know what he was going to do or was capable of is unacceptable in any book.

If this is the kind of thing that the certified guys see and experience from RV pilot's, then I get their distaste for the RV community.

Fly Safe, Fly Smart!
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 02-04-2017 at 04:22 PM.
  #2  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:22 PM
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mike newall mike newall is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 2,052
Default

Bill,

As a previous owner of 2 Champs and 2 Citabria's I will initially say thank you!

As RV owners, we know that we can do the glorious 190kt overhead, but also the 80kt chug a chug approach.

If some dweeb wants to cut you up - go have a word and smile.... If you can.

Sometimes I wish I had both.... A Champ at a strip 2 miles away to let me fly to my airplane 30 miles away

We are all Van's Ambassadors who sometimes need to remind the reprobates who and what they represent. Properly put, the 'owner' not 'builder' types usually say - Ooops and after being introduced to this site, cough up and become assimilated.

You know Bill........

Resistance is futile
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2017, 01:16 PM
tracy tracy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: chattanooga,tn
Posts: 231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Today I took one of my neighbor's daughter to Triple Tree's Chili fly-in.

They have a well defined arrival procedure for their large fly-ins; fly over Wally World distribution center, on to the town of Enoree, SC, then left to the airport where you will either turn right and land downhill or cross over and land up hill.

Today the standard pattern was to cross over and land up hill.

I was following a Cessna to the distribution center and was four miles behind when a Champ cut in front of us. No problem for the -9 and I slowed down to stay exactly two miles behind it. (I've never seen a champ with a transponder before.)

just before we reached the town of Enoree my ADS-B started going crazy and warning of traffic 100 to 200 feet above us, less than a 1/4 mile and closing fast.

I could see the N-number on the SkyView so I called them up by number asking if they had us in site but received no reply and they kept coming.

Needless to say, my passenger was a bit concerned as was I.

Finally they stepped out to the right side and stayed there, about 50 to 100 yards off our rightwing through the entire inbound procedure, without talking, even when called by N-number. It was at this time I realized it was an RV-8.

The -8 stayed there through the pattern but I was also down to about 70 knots, following the Champ.

With no idea what the guy was going to do, I continued following the Champ but did notice the -8 rocked his wings.

All I was thinking at this time was what was this yahoo -8 driver going to do and so did the "controllers" at Triple Tree.

I made one of the shortest and quickest landings ever and got off the runway at the end of the first lake. (I probably should have landed long but I know the -8 can't fly final at the 55 knots we were doing to give the Champ some room.)

After securing the plane I walked over to discuss the situation with the -8 driver and all he had to say was that he "had us in sight" and when I asked him why he didn't respond to my radio calls, he said, "You are not supposed to use your radio when coming in here."

Well, that may be true, unless there is a dangerous situation and running up someone's tail is a dangerous situation.

I don't mind flying formation with someone I know, when prearranged and I don't mind formation takeoffs and landings with someone I know, again when prearranged but having this guy come up like he did and knot know what he was going to do or was capable of is unacceptable in any book.

If this is the kind of thing that the certified guys see and experience from RV pilot's, then I get their distaste for the RV community.

Fly Safe, Fly Smart!

Hmmm......Don't go to Oshkosh!!!!!!
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RV-8
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Chattanooga, Tn
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2017, 01:23 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
Default

Perhaps the real danger in this situation is that the RV-8 pilot created a serious distraction for you that took a lot of your attention. Good job flying your plane, and it sounds like you handled it well.

I'd have been tempted to break out of the pattern and abort and re-enter, just to get away from the hazard.

That said, it was probably apparent after the first few moments that the RV-8 pilot was going to attempt to maintain separation, in spite of the violation of FAR 91.111. But your concern about the actual landing seems entirely reasonable.

Dave
  #5  
Old 02-04-2017, 02:58 PM
FLY6 FLY6 is offline
 
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Location: Burlington On. Ca
Posts: 136
Default Don't go to Oshkosh?

I have been to Oshkosh twice and never had someone fly formation that was not planned. In fact if it happened I am sure the controllers would have an action to separate us. I agree that the RV8 driver acted irresponsibly but what makes it worse, he doesn't think he did.
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:18 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike newall View Post
Bill,

As a previous owner of 2 Champs and 2 Citabria's I will initially say thank you!
Mike, the father of the young lady I had with me has built two RV's and currently has a Champ that he has owned since he was 15 and a Chief that his father finished restoring last year, both beautiful planes! My first plane was a '41 T-craft and I have time in Cub's, Champs, Luscombe's, T-Crafts, and soon to be Chief (I hope) so I am well aware of their limitations and fun factor of these great low and slow aircraft! (And I really do my T-Craft!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tracy View Post
Hmmm......Don't go to Oshkosh!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY6 View Post
I have been to Oshkosh twice and never had someone fly formation that was not planned. In fact if it happened I am sure the controllers would have an action to separate us. I agree that the RV8 driver acted irresponsibly but what makes it worse, he doesn't think he did.
I have flown into OSH a few times and have been flying down the tracks, in line and the entire line was passed by an Arrow with it's gear down and passengers waving.

Another time I followed a Zenair 801 who couldn't hold altitude or speed and when he climbed, his speed went down even further. After a stall trying to stay behind him I pealed off and went back and got in line again. Tony in his RV-9 was right behind us and said the controllers took the Zenair out of line after I pealed off.

I keep hearing the OSH controller's voice in my ear, "No side-by-side. No passing. White and blue RV, rock your wings. Great rock, ...)

This being my passenger's first big fly-in, it was an eye opener for her and not in a good way!

Something tells me the -8 driver (I refuse to call him a pilot, because pilots usually have good judgement!) was not happy being called out.

I'm still fuming at this idiot's behavior! I was confident he was going to hit us had I not called him on the radio and once he refused to answer, I wasn't sure if I could climb or turn because I had no idea what he was going to do. Sorry if I'm repeating myself.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 02-04-2017 at 03:25 PM.
  #7  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:25 PM
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snopercod snopercod is offline
 
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Location: Asheville, NC
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Default Glad I didn't go today

I was thinking of flying my Lancair down there from AVL today but decided against it for just the reason you have described. I worked too long and too hard on my plane to risk a midair in some cluster ****. I had a nice, quiet lunch at GMU instead.

Glad your ADS-B worked, though!
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:26 PM
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tfoster100 tfoster100 is offline
 
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Default

If you have his tail number would it make sense to report him somehow for everyone's benefit. Seems like we need to try to take stronger action as a group. Otherwise the next incident might not work out.
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:34 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfoster100 View Post
If you have his tail number would it make sense to report him somehow for everyone's benefit. Seems like we need to try to take stronger action as a group. Otherwise the next incident might not work out.
No, I think being called out in front of his child and a few friends that had gathered around him was probably enough.

He got really pissed off, which was good. I hope that means he realizes he made a mistake and hopefully learned something from it.

I heard from a friend who volunteers at TT who saw us fly over the field side-by-side and his words were "WTF were you doing?" When I explained it to him he understood.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
  #10  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:37 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopercod View Post
I was thinking of flying my Lancair down there from AVL today but decided against it for just the reason you have described. I worked too long and too hard on my plane to risk a midair in some cluster ****. I had a nice, quiet lunch at GMU instead.

Glad your ADS-B worked, though!
Bummer we didn't catch up! I promised my wife I would be home by 1 for a family outing so we didn't even stay for the food.

Just dropped in to say "Hi" to a bunch of friends and blasted out for home.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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