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01-26-2017, 04:22 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
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Get the Lead out
This week while performing a pre buy inspection on a gorgeous RV-9A I happened upon a big block of lead bolted to the tail area underneath the vertical fin! This RV-9A had a 180 HP Lycoming with a fixed pitch prop, of which I have seen and flown a few of. Nothing out of the ordinary stood out to me in this airplane that should indicate a need for ballast in the tail.
In looking at the W&B paperwork it became clear to me that they had added the weight to get the aircraft CG inside the envelope while it was on the scales. I'm sure most of you know this, but the only time the aircraft is required to be within the recommended CG envelope is while it is flying, not while it is empty.
The seller, who was not the builder, agreed to remove the lead while I was there. We weighed the lead at 19 lbs. 14 oz.! I received a note from him that he has since flown it without the lead and he "likes it much better."  He is going to reweigh the aircraft to establish a new empty weight and CG.
This is the second aircraft on which I have found heavy lead ballast in the tail for the same reason. If any of you have done this as well, please go back and remove it. For those of you who are non-builder-owners, I would encourage you to remove your tail fairings to check for any added ballast in the this area. Anyone peforming Condition Inspections who is not familiar with RV's may have assume it belonged there.
This much weight that far aft will definitely change the flight characteristics of the airplane, adding a huge polar moment of inertia that could bite you badly when least expected, such as in a spin. It's also requiring a lot of extra work from the tailwheel (if so equipped) and may make it harder to correct from inadvertent excursions during crosswinds or other circumstances.
Vic
__________________
 Vic Syracuse
Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
Last edited by vic syracuse : 01-26-2017 at 04:25 AM.
Reason: spelling
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01-26-2017, 05:42 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia
Posts: 1,230
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Thanks
Vic,
Thanks for posting this info. Personally, I have not seen this in the few Rv's I have worked with or on. But thanks for explaining why someone might think they needed it and what the down side of having it would be.
Very good info. I always learn stuff from your posts and CI's and your Kitplane articles.
__________________
Bob Martin
RV-6, 0-360 Hartzell C/S, Tip up, 1200+TT
James extended cowl/plenum, induction, -8VS and Rudder. TSFlightline hoses. Oregon Aero leather seats.
D100-KMD150-660-TT ADI2- AS air/oil seperator. Vetterman exhaust with turndown tips.
Louisa, Virginia KLKU N94TB
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01-26-2017, 06:03 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
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Thanks for the kind words, Bob. Glad I can be of help.
Vic
__________________
 Vic Syracuse
Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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01-26-2017, 06:26 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 1,187
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Wow, almost 20lb back there is huge. I would be interested to see the W&B form before the weight was removed. It would be useful for my AMT students and we could play with some loading conditions.
If you could PM me the gear weights and ballast arm that would be great. I'm always looking for real world examples for my students.
__________________
Bruce Sacks
RV-9 N659DB - Flying since 7/1/06
Hatz CB-1 - Fabric covering with Polyfiber.
Warner Robins, GA
A&P
APRS KJ4EFS
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01-26-2017, 06:56 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse
This week while performing a pre buy inspection on a gorgeous RV-9A I happened upon a big block of lead bolted to the tail area underneath the vertical fin! This RV-9A had a 180 HP Lycoming with a fixed pitch prop, of which I have seen and flown a few of. Nothing out of the ordinary stood out to me in this airplane that should indicate a need for ballast in the tail.
In looking at the W&B paperwork it became clear to me that they had added the weight to get the aircraft CG inside the envelope while it was on the scales. I'm sure most of you know this, but the only time the aircraft is required to be within the recommended CG envelope is while it is flying, not while it is empty.
The seller, who was not the builder, agreed to remove the lead while I was there. We weighed the lead at 19 lbs. 14 oz.! I received a note from him that he has since flown it without the lead and he "likes it much better."  He is going to reweigh the aircraft to establish a new empty weight and CG.
This is the second aircraft on which I have found heavy lead ballast in the tail for the same reason. If any of you have done this as well, please go back and remove it. For those of you who are non-builder-owners, I would encourage you to remove your tail fairings to check for any added ballast in the this area. Anyone peforming Condition Inspections who is not familiar with RV's may have assume it belonged there.
This much weight that far aft will definitely change the flight characteristics of the airplane, adding a huge polar moment of inertia that could bite you badly when least expected, such as in a spin. It's also requiring a lot of extra work from the tailwheel (if so equipped) and may make it harder to correct from inadvertent excursions during crosswinds or other circumstances.
Vic
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Hey Vic, Did you also remind him that a new phase I is needed for that kind of W&B change? (5 hr. min.)
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-26-2017, 07:56 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse
In looking at the W&B paperwork it became clear to me that they had added the weight to get the aircraft CG inside the envelope while it was on the scales.
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That's pretty dumb, but it's not just an EAB thing. Here at 08A we once had a Seneca show up at the paint shop with a 50 lb bag of sand in the tail.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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01-26-2017, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
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sand
I have heard that before...Many moons ago, at a little flight school, they trained in Seneca 1s. They had a problem with students not being able to hold the nose up on landing. After several broken nose gears and the resulting prop strikes, they started putting sand in the back to relieve the problem (  ). That didn't last long and they sold the senecas and bought seminoles instead...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88
RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...
Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
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01-27-2017, 05:24 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,628
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Note to self...
Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse
This much weight that far aft will definitely change the flight characteristics of the airplane, adding a huge polar moment of inertia that could bite you badly when least expected, such as in a spin. It's also requiring a lot of extra work from the tailwheel (if so equipped) and may make it harder to correct from inadvertent excursions during crosswinds or other circumstances.
Vic
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Don't be a fool, Schreck! You have already fought this fight and proved the sceptics wrong. Just bite your tongue and ease on down the road. 
__________________
Ron Schreck
IAC National Judge
RV-8, "Miss Izzy", 2250 Hours - Sold
VAF 2021 Donor
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01-27-2017, 06:50 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Locust Grove, Georgia
Posts: 30
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Should send that lead to Georgia Vic?! Makes good sinkers!
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01-27-2017, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Garden City Texas
Posts: 878
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Sure wish I could find 5lbs of lead in my tail! It would sure help out my W&B!
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