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  #11  
Old 05-19-2015, 10:41 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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If you're replacing discs and pads anyway, a 199-93 upgrade kit is really worthwhile for an A-model. The key change is a thicker disc -> more heat storage capacity -> much higher kinetic energy rating, 117K vs 155K.

You get discs, pads, caliper shims, new bolts, rivets, the works.
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  #12  
Old 05-19-2015, 06:43 PM
markscogg markscogg is offline
 
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Default They work fine

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Originally Posted by Bavafa View Post
Mark
Just wondering if you have installed and used these disk brakes yet? I am thinking of ordering a set and was hoping for some feedback.
Yes, they are on the plane and flying with no problem.
When you compare and old one to the new ones (laying on the mounting side) there is a small difference in height.
The calipers have plenty of "float" so it was not a problem.
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2015, 08:39 AM
Bavafa Bavafa is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markscogg View Post
Yes, they are on the plane and flying with no problem.
When you compare and old one to the new ones (laying on the mounting side) there is a small difference in height.
The calipers have plenty of "float" so it was not a problem.
Thanks for the feedback, I ordered them and they are expected to arrive by tomorrow. My original has a few groves and rather uneven surface. I was hoping to have them turned but couldn't find a shop to do that.
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2017, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
If you're replacing discs and pads anyway, a 199-93 upgrade kit is really worthwhile for an A-model. The key change is a thicker disc -> more heat storage capacity -> much higher kinetic energy rating, 117K vs 155K.

You get discs, pads, caliper shims, new bolts, rivets, the works.
Darn that Horton and his fancy math! I'm on this Cleveland 199-93 bus right now as it is time to replace the rotors. I just kinda' jumped in with "hey, we'll figure it out". The standard Vans plans (-9A) land the brake rotor very close to the wheel pant bracket with the standard brakes. Enter the fat disk and ... something has to change. The wheel pant bracket drags on the rotor. I'm working on massaging a few parts to see if I can get enough clearance. If that doesn't work, I'm planning on machining a thicker axle bushing on the inside and taking an equal amount off of the axle nut to move the whole wheel assembly about 1/16" outboard in order to get enough clearance from the wheel pant bracket.

I'm still noodling the details as I'm just back to the shop from the hangar. Oh, and those "longer" bolts that the "upgrade kit" comes with are exactly the same size as the original bolts -15 and no drilled head. Silly.

Note to the wiser: get the cheaper Rapco rotors, make your own shims (little piece of 1/8" aluminum) and be prepared for not just a bolt up upgrade, depending on your particular setup..
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Last edited by scard : 01-22-2017 at 03:45 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-22-2017, 05:33 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scard View Post
Darn that Horton and his fancy math! I'm on this Cleveland 199-93 bus right now as it is time to replace the rotors. I just kinda' jumped in with "hey, we'll figure it out". The standard Vans plans (-9A) land the brake rotor very close to the wheel pant bracket with the standard brakes. Enter the fat disk and ... something has to change. The wheel pant bracket drags on the rotor. I'm working on massaging a few parts to see if I can get enough clearance. If that doesn't work, I'm planning on machining a thicker axle bushing on the inside and taking an equal amount off of the axle nut to move the whole wheel assembly about 1/16" outboard in order to get enough clearance from the wheel pant bracket.

I'm still noodling the details as I'm just back to the shop from the hangar. Oh, and those "longer" bolts that the "upgrade kit" comes with are exactly the same size as the original bolts -15 and no drilled head. Silly.

Note to the wiser: get the cheaper Rapco rotors, make your own shims (little piece of 1/8" aluminum) and be prepared for not just a bolt up upgrade, depending on your particular setup..
Any reason you don't just add a 1/16" washer to the three bracket spacers? (maybe two)
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2017, 09:34 PM
Airzen Airzen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scard View Post

Note to the wiser: get the cheaper Rapco rotors, make your own shims (little piece of 1/8" aluminum) and be prepared for not just a bolt up upgrade, depending on your particular setup..

Scott are you suggesting that even the regular Rapco discs (not the thicker the ones), are not bolt on? Some of the previous posts indicate that there is no difference than the price. So just wondering...
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2017, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Any reason you don't just add a 1/16" washer to the three bracket spacers? (maybe two)
That will indeed move the bracket inboard, but the wheel pant remains in the same place due to the outboard attach at the nut. The net result is the wheel pant pulling the extents of the inboard bracket back against the rotor.
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  #18  
Old 01-23-2017, 07:30 PM
gasman gasman is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Airzen View Post
Scott are you suggesting that even the regular Rapco discs (not the thicker the ones), are not bolt on? Some of the previous posts indicate that there is no difference than the price. So just wondering...
The stock thickness is a direct replacement.

The thicker ones required me to add a spacer washer (purchased from Granger Part # 5GB11) to the axle before sliding on the wheel. Then the nut was shaved down the same amount. This kept the bracket from contacting the thicker disc.

The new bolts do need to be 1/8" longer. They don't need to be drilled as long as you use star lock washers and replace them when removed.... My Warrior was like this from the factory. I had that airplane for 20 years with no problem from any inspection. Sure is a lot easier than leaning down on your ear twisting wire.

I made my 1/8"shims from 1/8" alum bar stock from ACE hardware...

The thicker brakes work great!! have had them on for a couple of years and I DO use my brakes....6A. So far there is no sign of heat affecting the finish surface of the bell of the disc brake. The disc takes the heat just fine.

Save your money, order the thicker discs and the longer bolts. Spend an hour making the shims and end up with better brakes that should never cause a wheel pant fire. The pads should also last longer due to less heat.
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Last edited by gasman : 10-13-2018 at 12:52 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-24-2017, 06:54 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Originally Posted by scard View Post
That will indeed move the bracket inboard, but the wheel pant remains in the same place due to the outboard attach at the nut. The net result is the wheel pant pulling the extents of the inboard bracket back against the rotor.
Gotcha - Scott - I wondered in the previous write ups if the pants would just"stretch" to fit. I understand now your(our) dilemma, if the inboard pants mount is moved - lots of things are affected, the intersection faring, stretching of the pant. If the nut was shaved (outboard)to accommodate the inboard mount, the IF is still pushed inboard, so moving the wheel assy is the only thing left to keep the pant in a fixed position. Hmmm - - tricky pain.

So, you are thinking about making a new spacer (inner seal ring) that is .0xx longer and shifting the wheel by 1/2 disc thickness. Then machining off the axle nut the exact same amount so the end play is back to original - sounds like a good plan. Elegant. Good thinking, just what I expect from you.

Thanks Scott, good conversation.

EDIT - I finally read gasman's post, and he did the same. Good conversation anyway.
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Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”

Last edited by BillL : 01-24-2017 at 06:57 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-24-2017, 07:06 AM
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scard scard is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
The stock thickness is a direct replacement.

The thicker ones required me to add a spacer washer (purchased from Granger) to the axle before sliding on the wheel. Then the nut was shaved down the same amount. This kept the bracket from contacting the thicker disc.
So, you found a washer? Happen to have a part # or reference? Maybe something like this: https://www.grainger.com/product/GRA...-7-8-O-D-5MXC7

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Gotcha - Scott - I wondered in the previous write ups if the pants would just"stretch" to fit. I understand now your(our) dilemma, if the inboard pants mount is moved - lots of things are affected, the intersection faring, stretching of the pant. If the nut was shaved (outboard)to accommodate the inboard mount, the IF is still pushed inboard, so moving the wheel assy is the only thing left to keep the pant in a fixed position. Hmmm - - tricky pain.

So, you are thinking about making a new spacer (inner seal ring) that is .0xx longer and shifting the wheel by 1/2 disc thickness. Then machining off the axle nut the exact same amount so the end play is back to original - sounds like a good plan. Elegant. Good thinking, just what I expect from you.

Thanks Scott, good conversation.

EDIT - I finally read gasman's post, and he did the same. Good conversation anyway.
Yeah, that is generally the "sure thing" plan. However, I just might be able to massage the parts into playing nice. I have quite a bit of extra reinforcing meat that I added to the inside of the wheel pant where the inboard bracket attaches. Hmm, if I take a 1/32+" off of that. Also there is a whole lot of meat on the outboard face of the axle nut. Hmm, I could take 1/32" off of that. I wonder where that would get me . That is going to be my first attempt. Then I'm going to shim the wheel out and call it done.
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Last edited by scard : 01-24-2017 at 07:13 AM.
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