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01-16-2017, 11:30 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,484
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The problem with Navworx is their company is based around the ADS-B bubble. Once 2020 actually hits and the last guy to install a retrofit box does it, what is their business strategy? They have no other products and will not be in business long enough to provide support when you need it.
At least the other companies (at the higher price point) will be providing support 10 years down the road. Cheaper is NOT always better. I'm putting in FreeFlight's box, but any of the others, Dynon, Avidyne, Garmin, L3 would be a better option in my view. I've flown about 100hrs behind a Navworx box, doesn't seem to be an inferior product really, just no reasonable support, and no expectation that they will be in business after 5 years.
__________________
Stephen Samuelian, CFII, A&P IA, CTO
RV4 wing in Jig @ KPOC
RV7 emp built
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01-16-2017, 12:26 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 454
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I bought an original VM1000 used for 800 dollars 15 years ago. I used it without issue until last spring when it went tango uniform. Totally unsupported by JPI since I wasn't going to upgrade. I feel like I got my money's worth. If Navworx is gone in 5 years, I'll wager that the electronics will be fine for long after that. The difference here is that someone might change the rules and require a firmware upgrade that I won't be able to get. At far less than half the price of the next cheapest competitor, I'll take that risk. Ymmv
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01-16-2017, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtw_rv6
At far less than half the price of the next cheapest competitor, I'll take that risk. Ymmv
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Not sure that's still applicable. I just did a trig solution for $2200 after the rebate (even less if I can sell my old transponder). I already had a Stratux for in. If you look, you'll see a recent post discussing a new alternative from one of the providers focused on the drone market. The AOPA press release on this offering indicated a price of $1400, I believe, for a complete in/out UAT solution. It even interfaces with non-rs232 transponders wirelessly. It is just coming on the market. I predicted that we would see cheaper options due to the drone market and this should continue. I fly mostly in the dense ORD airspace and REALLY wanted a better traffic picture now and decided it was worth an extra $1000 for me.
Larry
__________________
N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019
Last edited by lr172 : 01-16-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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01-16-2017, 12:57 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBunin
The TSO has been temporarily suspended, it has not been revoked. Once a few things get ironed out, the TSO can easily be reinstated.
I don't know about refunds, but if you did not receive merchandise that you ordered, you can just dispute the charge with your credit card company.
David Bunin
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Sent an email about 3 weeks ago asking for refund or ship what was ordered as is. Have not received a response to email or refund or shipment.
In beginning when they were still communicating with people like myself, they offered to refund but hoped we would be patient while matter was resolved. I said forget refund, I will wait for product. Received a nice private thank you from a lady, might still have her name if I can find it. She probably was just doing what she was told to do.
Am disappointed the owner has gone to deep cover on this matter.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
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01-16-2017, 12:59 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 454
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Apples and oranges. The Navworx has a built in position source, in and out ADSB, and hardware for 1090mhz that might get activated someday. All in one box with a nine pin connector.
I bought all of that for $1000. The price of a new position source alone costs twice that amount. No one has a COMPLETE system for twice the price. And i really don't like using a mode s solution anyway.
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01-16-2017, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtw_rv6
Apples and oranges. The Navworx has a built in position source, in and out ADSB, and hardware for 1090mhz that might get activated someday. All in one box with a nine pin connector.
I bought all of that for $1000. The price of a new position source alone costs twice that amount. No one has a COMPLETE system for twice the price. And i really don't like using a mode s solution anyway.
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From the AOPA press release:
The company’s Echo ATU-20 transmits ADS-B Out on 978 MHz as a universal access transceiver, and receives ADS-B transmissions on both the 978UAT and 1090ES frequencies. It includes an integrated WAAS GPS and altitude encoder, and wirelessly interrogates the aircraft’s existing transponder. Wi-Fi data is compatible with popular apps including ForeFlight, WingX, and FlyQ, the company said; the unit weighs 75 grams and costs $1,300.
What is missing from this that the Navworx has? Also, the navworks is not available today for $1000. It is $1400 and much closer to $2000 once you add in a the transponder interface and misc bits.
Larry
__________________
N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019
Last edited by lr172 : 01-16-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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01-16-2017, 01:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtw_rv6
Apples and oranges. The Navworx has a built in position source, in and out ADSB, and hardware for 1090mhz that might get activated someday. All in one box with a nine pin connector.
I bought all of that for $1000. The price of a new position source alone costs twice that amount. No one has a COMPLETE system for twice the price. And i really don't like using a mode s solution anyway.
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Yes, it is apples and oranges. But the way most people think is, "What will it cost me today?" If I bought a IFR TSO'd GPS because I fly ifr, should I re-count its cost if I now add ADSB-out? Should I count the cost of the transponder antenna that I already had? And it's probably not fair to count the income you got from selling a now-redundant piece of equipment that you bought in the past - but that is how people think. It's money out of pocket today that matters. So by that standard my ADSB-out cost $1200, net, out of pocket. Another $500 got me ADSB-in. (Notice you play this game too. You don't count the cost of the required mode C transponder that you already owned.) So everyone has to choose what's right for them. You don't like mode S; but I have dreams of flying in the flight levels (just so I can say I did it), maybe visiting Mexico or the Caribbean (who knows the future rules, but UAT there is unlikely).
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01-21-2017, 06:57 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Arlington, tx
Posts: 205
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I saw that too..
Larry.... I saw that product too.
http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-atu-20/
Looks pretty good.... but I have no idea what GPS chipset they use and we could have the same issue with this product that we have with navworx.
I'm to the point now where I don't believe what any of the manufactures are claiming... including the big ones.
The FAA needs a website where we can easily understand if a company is selling an approved product, grouped by model number.
Hopefully the FAA will get organized so the consumer can buy with confidence and move forward.
__________________
Builders: John & Amanda
Model: RV 6A
Based - KJWY
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01-21-2017, 09:28 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,297
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I believe this is a navworx issue not an faa issue. The FAA doesn't seem to be bothering anyone else. I have no details, but i believe navworx pulled a fast one on the faa and got caught. I am waiting on the GRT GPS position source. Due to the Navworx fiasco, they called the FAA to make sure what they were doing would be blessed. They got a green light and will be shipping soon.
__________________
N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019
Last edited by lr172 : 01-21-2017 at 11:04 PM.
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01-22-2017, 12:28 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N363RV
Larry....
The FAA needs a website where we can easily understand if a company is selling an approved product, grouped by model number.
Hopefully the FAA will get organized so the consumer can buy with confidence and move forward.
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Well, you can look at the FAA's web site for the $500 rebate. There there is a list of boxes approved for the rebate. Not all-inclusive (non TSO boxes were excluded) but if your box is there then you should be okay.
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