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01-03-2017, 12:36 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,247
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I've also seen, on another board, posts by someone (probably the same guy) who says his wife worked in some unspecified capacity for Navworx at some unspecified point in past, and who may or more likely may not have the slightest clue what's going on. So far those posts have not included anything that would indicate either he or his ex-employee wife have any information that the rest of us don't have, which is to say... they're essentially clueless too.
Ain't the Internet grand? I guess we all watch and wait to see what happens next. I hope they work it out.
__________________
Dale
Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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01-03-2017, 01:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 454
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Does anyone see the hypocrisy here?
FAA and Dynon are putting non-TSO D10a in Part 23 aircraft and the world hasn't ended. Navworx puts a non TSO GPS in an EXPERIMENTAL airplane and the FAA acts like we will see 747s crashing into GA aircraft daily.
I certainly can't see any consistency here, but that is probably an unrealistic expectation from me.
Kudos to Dynon for their efforts by the way. Hopefully they don't get steamrolled in a similar way at some point.
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01-03-2017, 01:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Foley, Al
Posts: 563
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Hypocrisy.... yep, a perfect synonym for POLITICS!
I wonder how the FAA would respond if the general public were somehow made aware, (and understood), the magnitude of reduction in safety actions like this cause.
__________________
Paul Gray
Foley, Alabama
N729PG..... 450+ hrs
RV 7A, Lycoming 0 320 D1A, Sensenich FP propeller
pilotforfun2001@yahoo.com
VAF supporter $$$
Last edited by Paul 5r4 : 01-03-2017 at 01:27 PM.
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01-03-2017, 01:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtw_rv6
Does anyone see the hypocrisy here?
FAA and Dynon are putting non-TSO D10a in Part 23 aircraft and the world hasn't ended. Navworx puts a non TSO GPS in an EXPERIMENTAL airplane and the FAA acts like we will see 747s crashing into GA aircraft daily.
I certainly can't see any consistency here, but that is probably an unrealistic expectation from me.
Kudos to Dynon for their efforts by the way. Hopefully they don't get steamrolled in a similar way at some point.
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Not quite the same.
1. Ultimately, the FAA wants to get rid of radar and use ADSB-out to keep the airliners safe. Airline safety is way more important to the FAA, than having a small plane crash due to loss of attitude info.
2. Perhaps more important, Dynon has worked hand-in-hand with the FAA (and EAA) to make this happen. Not saying this happened with NavWorx, but an open spirt of cooperation seems to work better with the FAA than an advisarial relationship.
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01-03-2017, 04:06 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 1,390
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Anyone have any idea of the accuracy/inaccuracy of the TSO'd GPS chip vs. the non-TSO'd GPS chips. Are we talking a few inches, a few feet, a hundred feet or a mile. My iPhone shows my position sitting in the kitchen within 10 feet as shown on the Google map.
Will the FAA come clean and discuss this issue, which appears to be the main issue in a response?
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01-03-2017, 04:25 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Leander, TX
Posts: 166
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The issue is not so much the accuracy when everything is working, but rather the ability to detect that the satellites being used to calculate the position are all working properly and thus the calculated position is accurate. This is the System Integrity Level (SIL) that is causing heartburn for Navworx. There are a lot of technical details involved, beyond just how accurately located a plane is when everything is going right.
I've seen my position jump a few times using my iPad. Usually it is something momentary, or sometimes they are conducting GPS tests. The cheaper receivers don't examine or report any problems with the data being received.
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Henry
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01-04-2017, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 1,390
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Has anyone tried to visit Navworx in Rowlett, TX?
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01-04-2017, 12:08 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtw_rv6
Does anyone see the hypocrisy here?
FAA and Dynon are putting non-TSO D10a in Part 23 aircraft and the world hasn't ended. Navworx puts a non TSO GPS in an EXPERIMENTAL airplane and the FAA acts like we will see 747s crashing into GA aircraft daily.
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Big difference. The FAA is not using the D10A's output to separate traffic. I frankly don't have a problem with the FAA being conservative on this. The output of these units will, some day, be the sole method of aircraft separation. I don't want a midair because some guy decided to use a cheap part. I could care less if he falls out the sky for the same reason. While I don't believe in regulating victimeless crimes, that does not apply to ADS-b equipment.
Larry
__________________
N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019
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01-04-2017, 12:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
2. Perhaps more important, Dynon has worked hand-in-hand with the FAA (and EAA) to make this happen. Not saying this happened with NavWorx, but an open spirt of cooperation seems to work better with the FAA than an advisarial relationship.
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From my observations, Bob is right on here. The Navworx fiasco is squarely upon their shoulders, not the FAA's. The Dynon cases are examples that the FAA is being at least moderately cooperative in working with vendors to allow flexibility.
Larry
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N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019
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01-04-2017, 12:38 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,145
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Navworx may have had a valid argument, or at least part of a valid argument, but they poked the bear. You don't ever poke the bear. Nothing good comes from poking the bear.
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Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid 
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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