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  #11  
Old 10-01-2006, 10:02 AM
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frankh frankh is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Corvallis Oregon
Posts: 3,547
Default Couldn't agree more

.

Many homebuilts are still welded up in garages and shops and an A&P/IA can inspect your trial welds. With practice, you can learn too.
Go for it, [/quote]

A couple of years back I had a rudder pedal shear off and had to re-weld it...Definatly a structural piece!

I started welding but realised somehow I had forgotten how to gas weld...All sorts of nasty crystaline deposits and a terrible weld...HUH?...I used to be really good.

Turns out I was using a 1/8th rod....way too thick and it was cooling the weld almost immediatly...A guy sent me some refresher instructions via email.

That evening I was making fully certifiable welds.

Did the beat the snot out of it test and cut some sample thru with a hacksaw...Sould show no impurities of holes thru the weld.

Every now and then I go and practice just so I'm sharp...I would have no hesitation in welding up my own engine mount today.

YMMV.

Frank
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2006, 10:12 AM
RV505 RV505 is offline
 
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Posts: 120
Default

It isn't certifiable until the welder is certified. The welder isn't ceritified untill he has done his plates and had then sent off for xray. As a IA I would not go near it with my pen unless I had seen the certification papers of the welder. Looking and saying it's ok and putting pen to paper is another.

Last edited by RV505 : 10-01-2006 at 10:15 AM.
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  #13  
Old 10-02-2006, 07:25 AM
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Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
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Location: Houston
Posts: 2,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV505
It isn't certifiable until the welder is certified. The welder isn't ceritified untill he has done his plates and had then sent off for xray. As a IA I would not go near it with my pen unless I had seen the certification papers of the welder. Looking and saying it's ok and putting pen to paper is another.
I believe the person above was trying to say he was confident in his work.

What welding standards does the FAA recognize/reference? ASME? AWS?
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  #14  
Old 10-02-2006, 07:49 AM
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Nuisance Nuisance is offline
 
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Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
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Default

I would like to hear about this too.

It is my understanding there is no such thing as a certified aircraft welder.

35 years ago I was a certified pipe welder...some states have certification programs, but the FAA?

Anyway, chapter and verse please, from the FARs.
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2006, 09:45 AM
RV505 RV505 is offline
 
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Posts: 120
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American Welding Society AWS-171 & AMS-STD-1595 These are the standards devloped for welding in the aircraft industry... The devils in the details! Even though the Fars have instructions for welding the manufaturer info supersedes the FARs.. For a homebuilt it doesn't matter. You can use gurella glue. However a production aircraft has welding standards.. Example, if you welded a aircraft or component using the FAR's and didn't use the technical documents provided by the aircraft/ component manufacturer you would be in violation.. And if it crashed you would be liable.. What suprises me is all the repair stations pushing them selfs off as certified arn't really certified at all!


HERE GO TO School
http://weldpro.us/training.

http://engineers.ihs.com/collections...s/aws-d171.htm

Last edited by RV505 : 10-02-2006 at 09:54 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2006, 02:16 PM
WildBill WildBill is offline
 
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Posts: 63
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"It isn't certifiable until the welder is certified..."

An IA is supposed to be able to determine if a weld is aceptable, the welder being certified is just -your- means of doing that.

If there is nothing in the aircraft maintenance manual regarding welded repairs (methods, certified welder, etc), or there is no maintenace manual (as is the case for many airplanes constructed of steel tube, then people only have to use FAR 43 and AC43.13 "acceptable methods and practices".

Unless the weld was made with MIG, I doubt that any weld that was done in accordance with AC43.13, was pre-heated and stress relieved, and adheres to a proper visual inspection is going to fail below its design load (assuming is was engineered properly). 'certified' welder or not.

Not that MIG isnt certifiable, from what I have read, its too easy for a non-pro to make a good looking weld which isn't actually strong. With gas, if you make a cold weld (bad) that looks good, its probably a miracle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the original poster;
If all you want to weld is one job, leave it to a pro. If you plan on doing more extensive welding; start with gas, get a lightweight torch like the harris 15, go around during "clean-up" week and grab up some discarded bicycles (many of which are made of expensive 4130) and start practicing.
Thats probably the cheapest way to decide if its something you want to do, baring borrowing rig from a neighbor.

tinmantech.com has good info.
the meco midget is a good little torch, but you might need a slightly bigger backup torch (like the harris 15) for welding large clusters.

Last edited by WildBill : 10-02-2006 at 02:39 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2006, 04:02 PM
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Nuisance Nuisance is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV505
American Welding Society AWS-171 & AMS-STD-1595 These are the standards devloped for welding in the aircraft industry... The devils in the details! Even though the Fars have instructions for welding the manufaturer info supersedes the FARs..


HERE GO TO School
http://weldpro.us/training.

http://engineers.ihs.com/collections...s/aws-d171.htm
Standards are not rules, and they are not FARs...of course there are standards (PMAs and TSOs) for manufacturing certified components.

I went to your school...1 week? I went to welding school for 6 months full time on the G.I. bill in 1972.

My own I/A has made the statement to me many times that there is no such thing as a certified aircraft welder. I hope he is right or my airplanes will all fall out of the sky (including a couple I have sold).
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2007, 05:27 PM
phil9diesel phil9diesel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Upper ny
Posts: 78
Default welding results and quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prkaye
Is welding a really big deal? Is it something I can learn to do on my own, in my garage? What sort of investment in equipment is required?
Or is this something I would be better advised to outsource to the pros?
...What you're really asking is if you can weld. Budget? Large amperage tig is for results. Whether you paid 20 bucks to an heir or $7000 to a supplier, the machinery need be the same. Materials? rods-milspec, aerospace, FDA grade. Inert gasses are argon, helium, neon, etc. Absolutely no diluting with nitrogen or CO2. Safety? A firewatch is a helper with a large bucket of water and a wet rag. Goggles must be safety glass, impregnable to enormous gas explosions. Thick fire clothing must shield every inch of your body. It's made of woven asbestos, leather, and 1/2 inch thick wool. Just gloves and gogles don't cut it. Technique? You've got to find it. More than anything, welding is pushing away bad standards.
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  #19  
Old 03-25-2007, 06:13 AM
FredMagare FredMagare is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyle, TX
Posts: 566
Default Perhaps...

Quote:
Originally Posted by prkaye
Ok, so it sounds like it might not be a good idea for me to attempt welding things like an engine mount. Next question is, how can i get things like this welded? Are there shops in most major cities that provide this service? (how about Ottawa?) How do I know who to trust welding aircraft parts?

Maybe you could cut and assemble everything with little "tack-welds" to hold it all in place. Then transport the whole thing to a "certified" (or other talented/qualified) welder to complete it. A decent Lincoln welder (MIG/TIG) can be had for as little as $1500 or so, for the tacks.

And as far as tradesmen, I'm sure there are great welders in your area. Start with an internet search for welding shops close by. You're looking for someone with at least a couple of years of experience (and maybe a little maturity) who's an honest judge of their own work.

Good luck!
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2007, 08:22 AM
jcoloccia jcoloccia is offline
 
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Posts: 1,110
Default

Welding is NO BIG DEAL, especially oxy-acetylene. Pretty simple and with just a little bit of practice, you can be making airworthy welds.

Welding an engine mount, for example, IS a big deal. The welds themselves are trivial. Jigging it so it comes out straight (AND fits) after all that heating, stretching and shrinking is very very very hard. It's probably the most difficult aircraft component you could choose to weld. If you're bent on making your own mount (why not just buy a stupid mount?), find someone in the area that's done it before to help you with it. This is one place where experience most DEFINATELY counts.

Good luck.
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