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12-22-2016, 06:17 PM
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mount Vernon, Wa
Posts: 643
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Single ADAHARS, Single big Screen and IFR
Seriously thinking about foregoing the double redundancy for PFD.
My thinking is, I'd have a single large screen (with a single ADAHARS and an EMS), a GTN650, and a small, inexpensive, self contained basic EFIS as a backup and maybe save a few dollars and some panel space.
Is anyone else doing this?
__________________
Ken W.
Mount Vernon, WA
2020 VAF Supporter
Last edited by N804RV : 12-22-2016 at 08:54 PM.
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12-22-2016, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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If you have a second independent EFIS you DO have redundancy. Have you thought about how you will decide if they disagree?
There is an on-going discussion about what is better: a well integrated system with multiple attitude sources where the system decides what is broken; or a system with independent, isolated attitude sources where the pilot must decide what if anything is broken. I think the jury is still out.
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12-22-2016, 09:48 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 109
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That is exactly what I am installing in my aircraft. I have a Skyview Touch on the left side with the autopilot and control knob panels to the left. I have a D-6 mounted right above a Garmin 650 for a backup. Both the Skyview and D-6 have back-up batteries and are wired to the same VPX EFIS power circuit. This will allow me to download the EFIS systems to the backup batteries and save the battery for powering the Garmin 650 in the event of an alternator failure. I am mounting an IPAD on the right side of the panel, using all the functionality of Foreflight for the right seat.
Frank
building an RV-7A
dues paid for 2016
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12-22-2016, 11:23 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edson, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 483
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A different angle
I have a 7 inch Dynon planned centre stage of panel. Electric steam gauge turn and bank. Steam gauge airspeed altimeter. A AV8OR battery powered device on the right. Mission profile is Day/ Night VFR.
This should get me home with a failed electrical system.
Some thought given to Dynon SLE but still like the moving map display in panel even though Foreflight does it all as well.
Things changing so fast it is hard to keep up
__________________
Dave Cobb
[color="Red"]=VAF=2019 Donation - and a bit extra for great work![/COLOR="blue"]
Empennage RV 7 - Tipper
Wings complete
Dynon installed and running
Fuse closer to completion, Canopy complete
AME reviewed and repaired O-320-Lyc installed
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12-23-2016, 06:09 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
There is an on-going discussion about what is better: a well integrated system with multiple attitude sources where the system decides what is broken; or a system with independent, isolated attitude sources where the pilot must decide what if anything is broken. I think the jury is still out.
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Bob,
I'm not aware of any system (Experimental glass)where the 'system' has the ability to decide which specific ADAHRS source is broken no matter how many you have, is there one out there that actually does that?
I know they can show an error or mis-compare or in the case of a hard failed unit switch over to a backup source, but not actually throw out a unit that doesn't match the others (they don't agree), still up to the pilot to decide that one.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
Last edited by Walt : 12-23-2016 at 06:13 AM.
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12-23-2016, 06:24 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stuart, FL /Hartford, CT/Virgin Gorda,BVI
Posts: 3,122
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do you have an auto pilot? that can keep you up right too. 
__________________
TURBO YES =VAF= Payed Jan2019
Ed D'Arcy
RV6-A 5,200+ hrs, R-44 1,600 hrs, Helicycle 320 hrs, gyro sold,35,000 miles flown in 2015 
Stuart, Fl / S WINDSOR,Ct / Virgin Gorda, BVI - under major repair from hurricane damage
VAF #840 EAA AOPA FAC FABA QB SPA
addicted pickle ball player
https://i.postimg.cc/tn3h4svg/IMG-3101.jpg
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12-23-2016, 06:41 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo
do you have an auto pilot? that can keep you up right too. 
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I've learned (thankfully in VFR conditions) that as great as AP's are, they can misbehave or do the 'unexpected', you gotta keep a close eye on the automation.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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12-23-2016, 07:27 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
I've learned (thankfully in VFR conditions) that as great as AP's are, they can misbehave or do the 'unexpected', you gotta keep a close eye on the automation.
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On the flip side of this statement (and certainly NOT to disagree with Walt's thoughts on this point), more modern A/P's often contain a wonderful "gee whiz" feature called a "Straight and Level" button. If I had two attitude sources showing divergence, I would not hesitate to hit the big blue button and let the A/P act as a 3rd attitude reference. Wait and see which EFIS follows the airplane, then shut down the EFIS that shows the airplane is upside down!
I currently have two independent EFIS systems in our panel, plus an A/P with the big blue button. Even with all that, I'm still giving consideration to a true 3rd attitude source.
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12-23-2016, 07:46 AM
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mount Vernon, Wa
Posts: 643
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I'm planning for an IFR "capable" system. It seems like all the glass sales promotions are aimed at dual and triple redundancy. Yet, most IFR "capable" C-172s with vacuum systems do not have all this redundancy. And, they've trained how many thousands of instrument pilots?
I know this is an old debate. But, I'm really curios to know if there are any others out there flying IFR behind behind a big single display, instead of the airliner style full redundancy.
I know with the steam gauges, you've got some redundancy with the fact that each gauge is independent and discreet. Whereas, if the EFIS display fails, you lose everything. That's why I would put a small basic self-contained unit, maybe a used D6, as a back up.
__________________
Ken W.
Mount Vernon, WA
2020 VAF Supporter
Last edited by N804RV : 12-23-2016 at 07:52 AM.
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12-23-2016, 08:10 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 454
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[ more modern A/P's often contain a wonderful "gee whiz" feature called a "Straight and Level" button. If I had two attitude sources showing divergence, I would not hesitate to hit the big blue button and let the A/P act as a 3rd attitude reference. Wait and see which EFIS follows the airplane, then shut down the EFIS that shows the airplane is upside down! ]
Where does the straight and level information comes from that will drive the AP? Does the AP have it's own independent AHARS?
Johan
__________________
Dorfie
RV10 Flying, N245JM
2020 dues paid with a smile
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