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  #1  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:45 PM
asw20c asw20c is offline
 
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Default Vertical Power

I'm still working on my empennage so I'm a LONG way off from installing avionics, however I've looked briefly at the Vertical Power website and what their VP-X does. I'm not an electronics guy so I don't know the pros and cons, but it sure seems to make sense to use their product. If for nothing else it seems it greatly simplifies wiring. What's the downside?
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:10 PM
smash smash is offline
 
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It looks like one concern with VP-X is that they depend on the other EFIS suppliers to display the system information. It's the usual hardware / software / multiple vendors mating of cats with dogs problem. As Garmin and Dynon, et. al. rev their software apparently there is no guarantee the VP-X display will keep working. Take a look at this thread for an example: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=143968
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:27 PM
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Captain_John Captain_John is offline
 
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As a Garmin user, I am not affected by that Dynon problem mentioned above.

I really don't see a down side to it at all. I like the information and how it all integrates.

CJ
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:47 PM
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Steve Ashby Steve Ashby is offline
 
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Default The VPX is an excellent component

The VPX is a real game changer. It drags aircraft electrical distribution systems into the 21st century. It is head and shoulders above the old circuit breaker/fuse and mechanical relay systems. The real bonus for me is that it empowers an electrical moron like me (I'm still not certain which end of the wire the electrons go in) to be the master of my electrical system. It will work with the Garmin G3X I am planning for my panel, so compatibility is no problem. The only downside is that it costs two aviation monetary units, but in the long run its a bargain. You can't go wrong with a system that is so comprehensive and reliable.
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2016, 04:45 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Clay, as you say, you're a long way from avionics choices. A great many things can change in a year or three.

Marc Ausman, the VPX's creator, has written a good "Aircraft Wiring Guide" (title) which does a very fair job illustrating conventional and VPX wiring side by side. At this stage of the game, you should buy it, as well as a copy of Bob Nuckolls' book (search "Aero Electric Connection"). Study them both. EAB is about education and recreation, so do the homework.

VPX or no VPX is not a question of simplified wiring. The VPX does offer a long list of "functionalities". Some users value them greatly, while others consider them to be toys. You'll need to study the list and make up your own mind.

The system has not been as reliable as originally claimed, said claims being based on the good record of solid state circuit interruption devices. As an integrated airframe component, failure tends to ground the aircraft, with no chance of field repair. Loaner units can be scarce; use the search function.
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2016, 08:31 AM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
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I enjoyed reading Steve's comment above but I have to disagree about the VPX. Yes it does start to move aviation electronics into a new era but at a cost in both 'aviation units' and complexity.

In no way do I feel it is head and shoulders above fuse/breaker panels. It offers the same protections in a more complex fashion. Reliability may be a question mark compared to fuse/breakers which have a very well established operational record, but I'm comfortable with the VPX from that standpoint.

What it doesn't seem to offer is an actual simplification of wiring. If you substitute a fuse block for the VPX you end up with nearly identical wire runs and switches. I've built two airplane panels now and looked at the VPX both times. In both cases the wiring would not have been simplified at all.

What it does offer is much like what EFIS systems offer over steam gauges. You do have greater visibility into what is going on in your system. You do have control of the electrical system in a way that is not available with traditional fuse/breaker solutions. These controls can even be tied to software for alerting and taking actions.

However, that is were the added complexity is. You need to interface to an EFIS system to access those features. I don't blame Dynon for charging for a license to do that. It costs them money to write the interface software.

It also leads to issues where Dynon has updated to a new software load for their HDX but can't support the VPX system immediately. They will have it 'real soon now' as we say in the software business, and I believe them, but it does have repercussions for the VPX user that they have to be aware of.

Avionics in many modern business jets or turboprops have incorporated the ideas in the VPX into their systems so that the technology is being used effectively. It is integrated into the EFIS's of these aircraft and it makes the operation of the electrical system of these aircraft simpler and alerting more robust.

Most people are moving to glass panels not only because they are more functional and cool but the pricing of the units are now much more cost competitive to a new set of steam gauges.

The VPX offers a set of features that integrates nicely with the glass panel systems adding value to those systems, but the cost of a VPX system has a hard time competing with the cost of a fuse block.

The question is, do those features outweigh the cost. For me they did not, but I can see how others feel that they do.

In the case of my new G3x panel, speed scheduling of the trim system, flap controls, wig wag, and other features are included with one of the G3x boxes I added for half an 'aviation unit'. My fuse panel cost about one 'automobile unit'. (I'm defining an 'automobile unit' as one tenth of an 'aviation unit')

With no simplification of wiring, that leaves me with almost one and a half 'aviation units' to spend on something else. That easily covered my G5 with backup battery cost. I liked that trade better.
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Last edited by n982sx : 12-13-2016 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Grammar, typos etc.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2016, 09:15 AM
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Captain_John Captain_John is offline
 
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Dan mentioned that they aren't as reliable as originally claimed. I am not sure what the original claim was, but it looks like respondens are reporting about a ten percent failure rate according to this other thread...

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=141027

Even if it does fail, purchasing another one and reprogramming it isn't an insurmountable task. They are easily had.

CJ
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2016, 09:27 AM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
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I would take those poll numbers with a grain of salt. All they really can give us is a minimum number of actual failures. It can't give us a rate. I'm sure there are failures but the rate number has no validity and I suspect is way high. We would have to know more.

It should be an easy box to swap in and out depending on how you install it.
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2016, 10:14 AM
krw5927 krw5927 is offline
 
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This is becoming another never-ending debate. If you're still building the tail, focus on choosing whether to prime or not, and if so, what kind of primer to use.
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2016, 11:09 AM
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maniago maniago is offline
 
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Kurt has a point, but we all forward plan on the rainy days, so asking long lead questions is appropriate for our hobby. The other thing that bothers me about much in our world today is that high tech is the best tech. Wrong. Tech that gets the job done with the min of fuss is the right way. That does have to be evaluated by each person for each situation, but for me, I'll stick with the Timex solutions.

Physicists are paid to be perfect; engineers only for good enough. I-r-uh injunear.
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