VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Avionics / Interiors / Fiberglass > Engine Monitors
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-07-2016, 07:19 AM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,476
Default Inside the Red Cube

A while back my buddy Tom asked if I'd like a red cube fuel flow transducer for a bit of "forensic examination", as he had recently replaced one which wasn't working right.

Of course I said "Oh yeahhhh"

The manufacturer has designed the device so it cannot be dismantled for overhaul, at least not without a lot of special effort. First, the allen screws on the cover plates are installed with a thread locker, and being long, small diameter screws, most just twist off before the locker will let go. Second, the electronics are potted. Third, one wire is routed and potted in such a way that removing a cover plate breaks the wire, and it can't be repaired. In this case I didn't care about repair, so brute force methods were employed. Here we go:

There are cover plates on both side of the cube. One side has two stacked plates, and the other has a single plate. The single plate side just covers an potted electronics bay. I did not investigate the electronics.



On the other side, removing the topmost plate exposes the outer face of this machined assembly. The potted groove contain a wire:



The inside face contains a jewel bearing in the center, and an LED (or a receiver, don't know which, see below). You can also see the broken stub of the previously mentioned wire. Removing this assembly from the cube body breaks the wire, which was potted in both the cube and the plate after they were assembled. Clever.



Inside the main body we find another bearing, and a matching LED (or receiver). You can see the (broken) potted wire at about 5 o'clock:



There are two ports for fuel flow, arranged tangent to the circle:



Suspended in the circular cavity between the two bearings is a plastic rotor with 20 teeth and four impellers:



The "teeth" break the light beam between the LED and receiver, 68,000 times per gallon, as the rotor spins in the flow:



When the cube is installed between a boost pump and the engine driven pump, most builders report an excessive fuel flow indication with the boost pump running. I don't think any of us fully understand the flow mechanics with precision, but looking at the rotor, it's not hard to see how a little bit of pulsing in the flow might result in very small reversals of the wheel rotation, which would cause extra counts.

That's all folks.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-07-2016, 07:59 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,744
Default

Interesting to see inside one of these. Thanks Dan.

For SDS EFI users, we offer a $100 option to output a similar FF signal without any Red Cubes needed. I know several people have asked whether they need these our not with our system.
__________________

Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-07-2016, 08:08 AM
Lars Lars is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 1,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
When the cube is installed between a boost pump and the engine driven pump, most builders report an excessive fuel flow indication with the boost pump running. I don't think any of us fully understand the flow mechanics with precision, but looking at the rotor, it's not hard to see how a little bit of pulsing in the flow might result in very small reversals of the wheel rotation, which would cause extra counts.

That's all folks.
Which makes sense. Without taking a stab at the math, guessing that the (rotational) inertia of the wheel is substantially less than the (linear) inertia of the fuel passing through the device. Small changes in the latter would affect the former.
__________________
Lars Pedersen
Davis, CA
RV-7 Flying as of June 24, 2012
960+ hours as of June 30, 2020. Where did the time go?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-07-2016, 10:46 AM
lrgabriel lrgabriel is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 64
Default

Wow, Dan, thanks for posting this!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-07-2016, 10:51 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,587
Default

Way cool. Thanks for posting.

Carl
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-07-2016, 10:57 AM
SmilingJack's Avatar
SmilingJack SmilingJack is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hilton Head Island
Posts: 1,086
Default

Are you cousins with "Macgyver"

Neat stuff! Now I know I will never touch that thing!
__________________
John Mastro
RV-8
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-07-2016, 11:21 AM
Chkaharyer99 Chkaharyer99 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Pilot Hill, CA
Posts: 845
Default

Thanks for showing the magic inside the Red Cube. My cube is between my Airflow Performance fuel pump and the mechanical engine driven pump. Your illustration/tutorial helps me to better understand why I get a higher fuel flow indication with the electric pump on. I had no idea the Red Cube was a electro/mechanical device.

Thanks Dan.
__________________
Charlie
RV-8
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-07-2016, 11:45 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,583
Default Great Post Dan

Easier to understand how things work when you take them apart!
Tom
__________________
Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-07-2016, 11:47 AM
rv7boy's Avatar
rv7boy rv7boy is offline
Forum Peruser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,455
Default Red Cube Math

Dan, you are amazing!

I offer a question and then a comment:

1) Where did you get the factor of 68,000 counts per gallon for the unit? I assume it's from the manufacturer but where?

2) In the interest of accuracy, and I know you like to be accurate, I offer the comment that the term "impeller" is usually used to describe a part that transfers energy TO the fluid. A better term for the part that receives energy FROM the fluid might be "vane" or "blade." I know it's a nit.

Thanks for doing the forensics. I think you should offer your services to the NTSB as a field resource for aviation accident investigations.

P.S. My ancient educational methods yield a rotational speed of the little rotor of around 57 RPM for a steady state flow rate of 10 GPH through the unit. That's based on your calibration factor of 68,000 counts per gallon.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!

?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard

Last edited by rv7boy : 11-08-2016 at 12:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-02-2016, 12:55 PM
darata darata is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 51
Default

That is SO out of warranty!!
__________________
Dave Arata
Sales/Support
Electronics International
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.