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10-31-2016, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
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"Sell" was in quotes
Quote:
Originally Posted by sglynn
Also I think there must be some weight given to the last person who signed off the log books as "Airworthy". Since a new owner is not the original builder he will have to have all future maintenance done by an A&P IA. So I would expect that a new buyer wants to have the plane checked out so let it be an "annual" by an A&P IA and sign the log books. Seems like the whole purpose of signing off log books is to accept responsibility that the airplane is in airworthy condition.
Which brings up the question are folks who sell or buy completed RVs finding it easy for a new owner to get an A&P IA to to sign off and do annuals into the future?
Also, why "sell" it to your son? Why not make him a co-builder/owner so he can be the maintenance person of record into his future?
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He is an A&P so he can do the condition inspection regardless. But your point of having him as co-owner may have a lot of merit. That might help us avoid any potential estate or gift tax issues - since there may be some major changes to the tax laws next year.
The more I read about this, the more sense it makes to buy an existing airplane so that selling it in the future reduces my liability risk.
Too bad we have to worry so much about being sued. Kinda takes some of the fun out of this whole thing. And no, I don't spend all my time thinking about it - but I also don't want to make a poor decision.
__________________
Krea Ellis
Locust Grove, GA
DA20-A1 "Princess Amelia" - gone home to Amelia Island
RV-7A Phase 2
RV-10 under construction at Synergy Air South
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10-31-2016, 05:08 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 115
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I am one of those that has been hamstrung by the threat of a lawsuit for selling my RV. I'm married to a corporate lawyer, which doesn't make this any easier. And I've seen the video of the RV being scrapped by the jaws of of death and I just dont have the heart to do that.
Has anyone had any success selling their RV abroad? I suspect that, while the liability issue may not go away entirely, selling abroad may mitigate the exposure.
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10-31-2016, 06:21 PM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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You know, everybody has their own thresholds of pain. Some fly night IFR & are terrified of acro. Others (me) have opposite thresholds.
I find it helpful to remember that risk, and perception of risk, are not the same thing. Most people think that as US citizens we are at more risk from crime, disaster, mayhem, etc than ever before. But the truth is, we are safer now than at any point in our history.
Every lawsuit over a homebuilt seems to 'make the news' in our circles, but no one seems to count up all the homebuilt crashes that *didn't* result in a suit.
FWIW...
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11-01-2016, 10:51 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 60
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I was third owner of a homebuilt that I sold as scrap. It was subsequently returned to flight and then has changed hands a few times.
I may have missed it, but I don't see mention in this thread about the issue of being named in a suit by subsequent owners (or subsequent owner next of kin, victims, etc) of the project. Person A might receive a hold-harmless agreement from buyer B, but if B then sells it to C, and C crashes...I must assume that persons A and B (and any subsequent owner or mechanic who did any construction on the project) is subject to be named in a suit from C's attorney, particularly if A (and/or B) has deep pockets, regardless of the merits.
Risk = likelihood of hazard occurrence x consequence of hazard occurrence. Certainly the likelihood of litigation is low, but you don't have to be co-named in very many Mickey Mouse deep pocket fishing expeditions to heavily consider the consequence of the litigation aspect of the equation as not worth the dollar value that you receive in selling the project. YMMV.
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11-01-2016, 11:06 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse
But don't you, as a Designated Airworthiness Representative issue an Airworthiness Certificate. Everything else I agree with.
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The DAR issues an "Airworthiness Certificate" not a "Type Certificate". Can't meet the standards for a certificate that doesn't exist hence never "Airworthy".

__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com
Last edited by GalinHdz : 11-01-2016 at 11:31 AM.
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11-01-2016, 11:18 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Eagles Nest, T56
Posts: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
Yes, It is an "Airworthiness Certificate" but it does not make the aircraft "Airworthy". That is just the title of the form.
For clarification on that issue, you will have to ask the FAA, and they don't answer "why questions"!
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Just to add a little info to Mel's accurate post. Our airplanes have a 'Special" Airworthiness Certificate because they have been deemed safe to fly but have no type design to conform to.
Similarly a certified airplane can receive a "Special Flight Permit" "Ferry Permit" if it is deemed safe for a particular approved flight but does not conform to it's type design for reason of equipment failure or damage, etc.
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11-01-2016, 11:21 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: santa barbara, CA
Posts: 1,682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
Yes, It is an "Airworthiness Certificate" but it does not make the aircraft "Airworthy". That is just the title of the form.
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Hah! That's hilarious. Government at its finest.
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11-02-2016, 12:06 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 671
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12 year rule?
Wasn't there a law passed several years ago that held aircraft manufacturers liable for 12 years from the date of manufacture and not thereafter? Is that true, and does it apply only to certified aircraft builders? John
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11-02-2016, 04:48 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 370
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You Americans are weird. I'd hate to go through life having to worry about this stuff
I bought an RV from someone who won't get sued. Will sell it when I'm done with it, and I won't get sued either.
I reckon hundreds of RVs are sold every year, and that'd stop in a nanosecond if lawsuits became an issue. I know you folks live in a litigious society, but is it really this litigious?
- mark
__________________
[ Paid up on 3 Feb 2020 ]
RV-6 VH-SOL
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11-02-2016, 05:18 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,301
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I think Mel has great comments but EAA will be a lot more authoritative than a forum. C'mon guys...
__________________
RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2020 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
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