Handholds

[DonFromTX]

One of the problems of starting a build late in life, then building slowly, is that when you are done you are too decrepit to get in and out of the darned thing. I have been working on things that require me to get in the cockpit, then back down to the engine. I am feeling so unsteady it worries me, feels like I need a handle or something. Anybody else out there who at 79 with total knee replacements and all the other problems of growing old, has added a handle somewhere on the outside or invented some other aid to entrance?

[joedallas]

Don
I am 72 and I agree with you this is not the best aircraft design for the older people that makes light sport a good option.
A handle is something that I am trying to design that will stick out of the aircraft when on the ground and retract in when in flight.
The step is also something that I think could need improvement and may be even at the back of the wing.
I have had this problem in mind since I first got into the 12 at Oshkosh at the age of 68

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Wing Walk Area this is my post # 1 Wing walk area

The wing walk seams a little narrow.
Has anyone hand anyone step off and dent the area next to the walk.

Adding one more nose rib next to the walk before I close up the top of the wing should help.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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This is from Scott post # 4 On wing walk area

Because of the cockpit configuration of the RV-12, the typical entry / exit process used by most people involves one foot on the step, then one foot on the wing walk, then the first foot into the cockpit.

There is no climbing up onto and standing on the wing with both feet as in many other aircraft, so the area on the wing doesn't need to be very big.



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I did not respond to Scotts post at the time, however this does not seem to be easy for people of age
In my view the handle is something that should be on the twelve.
I will post my design when I have made the choice of what I will use

[Raymo]

I have a good friend that turns 78 today and have the same concerns for him. I was thinking of installing a sturdy strap (e.g. nylon webbing) on the roll bar of my -7A slider to provide something to help him with ingress/egress and stability while on the wing.

I'd have to cut through some of the sika-flex between the roll bar and windshield but think it would be do-able. Certainly better than nothing.

[DonFromTX]

Originally Posted by joedallas;

This is from Scott post # 4 On wing walk area

Because of the cockpit configuration of the RV-12, the typical entry / exit process used by most people involves one foot on the step, then one foot on the wing walk, then the first foot into the cockpit.

[B

There is no climbing up onto and standing on the wing with both feet as in many other aircraft, so the area on the wing doesn't need to be very big.

[/b]

Good Grief, that may mean my career as a wing walker is over before it really got started!
[IMG][/IMG]

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by joedallas

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This is from Scott post # 4 On wing walk area

Because of the cockpit configuration of the RV-12, the typical entry / exit process used by most people involves one foot on the step, then one foot on the wing walk, then the first foot into the cockpit.

There is no climbing up onto and standing on the wing with both feet as in many other aircraft, so the area on the wing doesn't need to be very big.



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I did not respond to Scotts post at the time, however this does not seem to be easy for people of age
In my view the handle is something that should be on the twelve.
I will post my design when I have made the choice of what I will use

Well, the way I have always analyzed this is that the higher you go (such as standing with both feet on the wing walk)... The higher you are above any of the places that you have available for hand holds. And if you think about it, regardless of how you do it, you have to support your self with a single foot on the wing so why not skip planting both feet there and just move to the next step of landing a foot inside.




The method I posted was just one.
There are others that people use.

One of those for entering on the left side would be to back up to the wing leading edge (face fwd).
Right foot on the step... push up to sitting on the canopy side rail.
Left foot onto wing walk.
right foot into cockpit floor.

[Raymo]

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002

The method I posted was just one.
There are others that people use.

One of those for entering on the left side would be to back up to the wing leading edge (face fwd).
Right foot on the step... push up to sitting on the canopy side rail.
Left foot onto wing walk.
right foot into cockpit floor.

The issue is that their leg strength and balance is not sufficient to do the above method. They have to put both feet on the wing, get their back straightened up, catch a couple breaths, then proceed into the cockpit. Getting out is even more of an issue for my non-pilot friend. We'll do some tests and practice before flying to be sure he can do it on his own.

[joedallas]

Scott
The statement you made is correct ( The higher you are above any of the places that you have available for hand holds )
This is the issue, moving the wing back in the design of the twelve helps the forward view at a trade off of rear entry of the wing like all aircraft, I am not saying this was a bad thing.

I am not trying to criticize the front entry, I am just trying to find a way for us older people with less led strength and balance issues to enjoy their twelve in their golden years.

I will add a handle at the back of the roll bar and a different step to try to make it a little easier to enter the twelve.
Standing on the wing with only one foot and opening the canopy is a little above my ability.

I am still considering moving the step to the back of the wing and extending the walk area to the flaperon.
I have already made changes to help with this, my canopy opens be a keyless entry remote, I added a wing rib at the rear spar to extend the walk area and I replaced the rear window with aluminum with a small window.

The twelve is a great little aircraft and will get better over the years



Click on the canopy video link on the home page.

http://joesrv12.com/

My View
Joe Dallas

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002

Well, the way I have always analyzed this is that the higher you go (such as standing with both feet on the wing walk)... The higher you are above any of the places that you have available for hand holds. And if you think about it, regardless of how you do it, you have to support your self with a single foot on the wing so why not skip planting both feet there and just move to the next step of landing a foot inside.




The method I posted was just one.
There are others that people use.

One of those for entering on the left side would be to back up to the wing leading edge (face fwd).
Right foot on the step... push up to sitting on the canopy side rail.
Left foot onto wing walk.
right foot into cockpit floor.

[ben barron]

Would you share the specs of you canopy lift and keyless entry remote pieces?

[todehnal]

Now, for my ingress/egress story. I'm 78, and my wife is a few years my junior. We struggled for a reasonable solution for getting in and out of our new bird. Then, we came across an article that I think was written by Dick VanGrunsven himself. In fact, I even think there was a short video sowing how it is done. The pilot, and passenger procedures are mirror image actions. You walk up to your side of the airplane facing the fuselage at the forward wing root. With a hand on the canopy rail, and using your forward foot, step up on the step. Now merely step into the floor of the cockpit with your other foot, and stand up. No need to use the wing at all. Getting out is just a reverse procedure. The only tricky part is knowing exactly where the step is located, as you won't see it as you exit. You soon learn that it directly in line with the face of the instrument panel. It will take a few attempts, but it serves us very well now. Hope this helps.....Tom

[DonFromTX]

Very interesting, I intend to have a get in and out party at the hangar using these suggestions. I don't think my knees and leg length will allow this one to happen, and most of all this would be done AFTER you crawl up on the wing to unlatch and lift the canopy. That seems to be the biggest obstacle, maybe a remote latch and lift like Joe has would be best.

Originally Posted by todehnal

Now, for my ingress/egress story. I'm 78, and my wife is a few years my junior. We struggled for a reasonable solution for getting in and out of our new bird. Then, we came across an article that I think was written by Dick VanGrunsven himself. In fact, I even think there was a short video sowing how it is done. The pilot, and passenger procedures are mirror image actions. You walk up to your side of the airplane facing the fuselage at the forward wing root. With a hand on the canopy rail, and using your forward foot, step up on the step. Now merely step into the floor of the cockpit with your other foot, and stand up. No need to use the wing at all. Getting out is just a reverse procedure. The only tricky part is knowing exactly where the step is located, as you won't see it as you exit. You soon learn that it directly in line with the face of the instrument panel. It will take a few attempts, but it serves us very well now. Hope this helps.....Tom