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10-06-2016, 01:57 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 27
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Riveting: Wing Ribs
This is my first post on the board. I took over an RV-7 project back in June/July and I'm riveting the right wing ribs to spar. Please correct or if you have a proven technique on AN470AD 4- rivets and driving them with the ribs in that tight area... it has been a problem I can't seem to figure out at this point.
Smileys on the rib flange, damage to the manufactured head, poor quality shop head etc etc. The pressure is about 45-50 psi with a 2x gun and about 3 different bucking bars. Overall they look bad, take a long time to set and a couple have been unacceptable and I drilled them out. The ribs are in the way and I've been bending them to the side. The offset rivet set has not helped.
Ryan
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10-06-2016, 02:20 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 52
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Sounds like you have almost everything correct but are squeezing the rivet between the bucking bar and the gun. make sure the job is held firm, apply pressure with the gun and ''lightly'' touch the shop head with the bucking bar. Don't counter all the pressure you apply to the gun with the bucking bar. With me I just needed more practice.
cheers
__________________
Patrick ZK VNS
RV 9A
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10-06-2016, 02:22 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 216
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Here is what I did. I used a super long rivet set (12"??) which allowed me to move the wing rib out of the way a bit as i riveted. I too have horrible success with the double offset rivet set. The first few ribs I was able to back rivet, but ultimately the best method was to set up a bucking bar rest and have a bucking helper to just hold the bar on the rest. I could then rivet using the long rivet set. I would move the rest to each new rivet location. Yes...A tad time consuming, but I promise you text book set rivets every time. When starting out, I found it helpful to hold the rivet set on the rivet head while the other hand uses the gun. Of course a bunking partner holds the bar. With enough practice you can do this by yourself. (The kicker for me is that I am only good with bar in left hand and gun in right.....so practice switching hands!!!)
http://garetsrv.blogspot.ca/2016/01/...s-7-hours.html
http://garetsrv.blogspot.ca/2016/01/...g-spars-5.html
Last edited by Aero_Octaveus : 10-06-2016 at 02:27 PM.
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10-06-2016, 02:25 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 860
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Long Rivet Set
I agree with Garet. Long ~12" rivet set was the key. Also used a 3X gun. I had a good 2X gun that said OK up to 5/32 but it really didn't have enough power. Spent way too much money on a 3X but had much better results
__________________
Terry Edwards
RV-9A (Fuselage)
2020/2021 VAF Contribution Sent
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10-06-2016, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 115
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I remember this well. It is a difficult area to work in. Besides bending the rib to the side, I found it necessary to grind a flat on the side of my offset rivet set. Until I did that I was not able to get the rivet set squared up on the manufactured head. Grind off as much as you need without going into the polished face and rim of the rivet set.
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David Lewis
RV-7A
Airframe complete
Engine mounted
Working on FWF and electrical
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10-06-2016, 02:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero_Octaveus
Here is what I did. I used a super long rivet set (12"??) which allowed my to move the wing rib out of the way a bit as i riveted. The first few ribs I was able to back rivet, but ultimately the best method was to set up a bucking bar rest and have a bucking helper to just hold the bar on the rest. I could then rivet using the long rivet set. I would move the rest to each new rivet location. Yes...A tad time consuming, but I promise you text book set rivets every time.
http://garetsrv.blogspot.ca/2016/01/...s-7-hours.html
http://garetsrv.blogspot.ca/2016/01/...g-spars-5.html
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When I did the wing ribs for the first wing, I flexed the ribs to the side, just a little to get the rivet set properly aligned.
Later in the build (fuselage center section) you don't have that luxury.
If I were to do it today, I would use a short single offset rivet set with the plastic cap on it. I would also take off the retaining spring on the gun.
Another thing is to use a tungsten bucking bar.
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10-06-2016, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
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Recommend a 3X gun.
And it might be helpful to use short sections of narrow fuel tube, just big enough to fit over the un-set tails of the rivets. These do a decent job of holding the flanges down. The fuel line tube expands during the riveting, comes off easily, and can be reused.
Dave
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10-06-2016, 03:13 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 27
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Thank you! I did not expect that I'd get advice so quickly. I was definitely using too much pressure against the gun. Aero, I'll be ordering the longer rivet set and try your setup as well. Thanks again!
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10-06-2016, 03:32 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Vonore, TN
Posts: 369
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For my compressor, pipe, hose setup I needed 80 to 90 psi for -4 rivets with a 3X gun, but your setup may be different. I used an offset cup rivet set, ground one side flat as mentioned earlier, then put a small piece of masking tap over the tip of the cup set. The tape keeps the offset set from rotating. What really helped was a second person bucking while I shot. I could hold the gun and set to keep it on the rivet.
Keep in mind longer sets and offset sets loose more energy than stubby sets...need more pressure.
Also, in the wing walk area, rivet the ribs to the main spar before the rear spar, as I did not have room between those ribs to fit a gun.
__________________
John Tierney
Vonore, TN
RV-7A - N777JT Flying
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10-06-2016, 08:53 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
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Alternate method to rivet main ribs to main spar
I did it totally different. I back riveted them. Detailed in my blog and a tip I submitted to Kitplanes.
Set the spar on benches with the rib up.
Prop it up on either end with blocks high enough so the back rivet bar fits underneath. I actually placed the round back rivet bar bar on top of a back rivet plate then placed a tungsten bar on top of it. More mass and the tungsten is nice and square.
Now add some pliable material to the end blocks like foam. You want the set up just high enough so the rivet shop head is not contacting the bar.
Adjust every time so as the shop head is driven, the bar will not touch anything. Check again. You don't want any damage to these parts.
Gently flex the rib over and drive the rivet. Easy Peasy and perfect shop heads.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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