Pre-buy inspection fees

[RV6_flyer]

I have not done many pre-buys but when I do one, I do the same thing I would on a "Condition Inspection" with a checklist(s). (Checklists is plural as there is one for SB.) Most pre-buys that I have done have been done for friends. I do check for Service Bulletins, ADs, and recurring maintenance that is required on accessories. I inform the guy paying the bill of what I find and he is free to use the items that are not done to negotiate with seller to have them done or to reduce the price. Much like Mike Busch, I will let the guy paying the bill what must be done right now and what can be deferred to a more convenient time.

[DonFromTX]

In general I think the "pre buy" is over rated and often misunderstood. I got burned when selling my Ercoupe, the prospective buyer decided to have a thorough pre buy done by the IA he selected, to be able to then call it an annual.
It all went well, the aircraft was scattered all over the hangar, no squawks of any kind, and the buyer changed his mind about wanting to buy an airplane! Decided that since he was not going to buy it, he did not owe the IA anything nor me either! After some serious threats that I felt we should let a court of law decide things, he finally came up with half the annual fee. I paid the rest of the annual fee, since by the time this was all taken care of, many months had passed and it was about ready for an annual anyhow. The plane was off the market for many months, could not be flown, and it cost me money. Be careful out there!

[Jesse]

I perform a lot of prebuy inspections and I am always clear about my fee. I have never had a problem, and I have never left a plane unflyable even if the buyer walked away. I have had cases where the buyer saw enough to decide to buy before it was all closed back up and paid me the difference to do a full condition inspection. I usually fly the plane first before doing more than a thorough preflight so things are warmed up and so I'm flying tired after performing a prebuy. This also gives the option of walking away without ever opening anything up if the plane doesn't fly right or the engine temps and/or pressures aren't good enough.

[Ben R]

I have sold a LOT of planes over the years and I often see the prebuy inspection used as a bargaining tool, which is not what a prebuy is for. The prebuy should inform the buyer of any discrepancies or airworthiness issues. If the buyer decides to negotiate based on the discrepancies found, that's their business. However, it aggravates me when someone goes into a prebuy with the intent of trying to find as many things wrong with the plane as they can in attempt to lower the price. I normally tell buyers that the price is firm. The prebuy determines whether they want it for that price or not at all. That normally prevents the aforementioned scenario from playing out.

With that said, I would also like to mention that Rick performed an extremely thorough prebuy inspection for me last year on an RV-6 that I was interested in. He was very professional, reasonably priced, and sent a detailed report when he was done. I couldn't have been happier with his work.

[Doggtyred]

Originally Posted by DanH

The inspector with the, umm, unusual fee structure is qualified. How are you going to leave him off the list?

I'm just sayin'....

Buyer beware... you call and ask fees/rates.. of several.. then choose one.

If a contract gets put in front of you that is separate from what you discussed, dont sign it.

[ssmdive]

Following this. I would not hire anyone that said I owed them 40% (or any %) of the reduction in price based on his/her inspection. But waiting on the guy to give his say before I crucify him.

I look at a prebuy as an inspection to see if I am even willing to buy the plane. I am 100% responsible for the prebuy cost and my agent will not leave a plane in pieces. He might open it up and see something that makes the sale dead, but he will not leave the plane in pieces. It will be in the exact same condition as when he walked in.

I have bought three planes. One I did the prebuy myself. Worked out fine. One I paid a guy 1,000 dollars and it was SUPPOSED to be an annual if I bought the plane. That guy backed out of that deal saying he didn't have time to pack the bearings... etc. The last ended up being a conditional and needed some work done. The prebuy was 500, and I paid another 1500 in work being done and the seller dropped the purchase price by 750 to keep the sale on track.

I don't look at the prebuy as a tool for negotiations. But if the seller is willing to drop the cost for the sale to continue... I let them.

I view them mainly as a go/no-go decision tool.

[rv6rick]

OK, I want to do my best to keep this as accurate, complete, and short as possible.

Below are my fees….I think they are quite reasonable.

I charge a flat rate of $250, cut and dry.

For $250 I provide:
- Pre-inspection phone consultation with the potential buyer (or seller if it's a sellers prebuy).
- Once the plane is at my shop I complete a detailed inspection including engine/prop/airframe/wiring/SB's/logs/history/avionics/etc.
- An average of 100 up close and personal pics.
- A very detailed written report of my own design (follows the EAA judging 1-10 scale rating/guidelines).
- Follow up consultation with the buyer (or seller as mentioned above). They use the spreadsheet/pics/etc to finalize their sale as they see fit.


I put in about 12 hours for each $250 inspection. My shop rate is $40/hour so you can see that every time I do a prebuy I actually lose $230. Obviously I don't do prebuys for the money......I do them to help RV folks.

In addition to and completely separate from prebuys, I get many requests to locate and recommend airplanes for potential buyers. These buyers want me to locate a plane that suits their mission, appraise the value, and negotiate the sales price and terms of the sale on their behalf. I also charge a flat $250 for this brokerage service. As we all know ‘asking prices’ are occasionally inflated. ‘If’ the final sale price for the plane is lower than the asking price (based solely on the fair market value), I ask for a commission on the difference, NOT the full sale price. Example: asking price is 50k, sale price is 48k, I ask for a percentage of 2k. For the record, my percentage is NOT 40%, I laughed when I read that in the OP post! I understand most brokers charge a percentage on the final sale price.

I want to be crystal clear on this next part: Upon my inspection, if the seller reduces the price due to any mechanical/safety/SB/repairs/etc issues......I DO NOT accept a commission as the buyer needs those funds for obvious reasons. In this case I simply collect my $250 brokerage fee. People have been extremely happy with this service.

Now, regarding ‘the story’ that the OP ‘heard’ in post 1 of this thread:

About 6 weeks ago I was contacted by a gentleman requesting a purchase and prebuy on an RV7. This particular RV7 was owned by an acquaintance of mine and was actually built by Mr. Fruehling. During the course of our conversation I shared my fees as outlined above. The gentleman said that he and the seller had already agreed on a price and that he only needed a prebuy. He had the owners friend call me to set up the day and time for the prebuy. Ironically, the weather was uncooperative on that morning so I didn’t even do the prebuy.

Fast forward to today: I have no idea how the above turned into the ‘story that I heard’. My only guess is that my communication with the gentleman who wanted the prebuy was not clear and/or he misunderstood. Either way I fault neither him or myself.

Many of you know me very well, I consider myself to be a hard working individual and I try very hard to be honest and trustworthy with my fellow man. I spend countless hours each week on the phone with RV guys answering their questions and consulting with them about their projects. I do this happily and never charge a dime, many folks charge for what I do for free.

Some of you don’t have a clue who I am and one guy has threatened to ‘crucify me’ if he doesn’t like what I say (‘ssmdive’ post 53). I realize that this is ‘the internet’ and as Doug Reeves says “The Haters Are Going To Hate”. If you don’t agree with my prebuy fees or my broker fees then simply call someone else.

Threatening to ‘crucify me’ on a public forum is more than I bargained for.

Rick

[DaAV8R]

Originally Posted by rv6rick

OK, I want to do my best to keep this as accurate, complete, and short as possible.

Below are my fees?.I think they are quite reasonable.

I charge a flat rate of $250, cut and dry.

For $250 I provide:
- Pre-inspection phone consultation with the potential buyer (or seller if it's a sellers prebuy).
- Once the plane is at my shop I complete a detailed inspection including engine/prop/airframe/wiring/SB's/logs/history/avionics/etc.
- An average of 100 up close and personal pics.
- A very detailed written report of my own design (follows the EAA judging 1-10 scale rating/guidelines).
- Follow up consultation with the buyer (or seller as mentioned above). They use the spreadsheet/pics/etc to finalize their sale as they see fit.


I put in about 12 hours for each $250 inspection. My shop rate is $40/hour so you can see that every time I do a prebuy I actually lose $230. Obviously I don't do prebuys for the money......I do them to help RV folks.

In addition to and completely separate from prebuys, I get many requests to locate and recommend airplanes for potential buyers. These buyers want me to locate a plane that suits their mission, appraise the value, and negotiate the sales price and terms of the sale on their behalf. I also charge a flat $250 for this brokerage service. As we all know ?asking prices? are occasionally inflated. ?If? the final sale price for the plane is lower than the asking price (based solely on the fair market value), I ask for a commission on the difference, NOT the full sale price. Example: asking price is 50k, sale price is 48k, I ask for a percentage of 2k. For the record, my percentage is NOT 40%, I laughed when I read that in the OP post! I understand most brokers charge a percentage on the final sale price.

I want to be crystal clear on this next part: Upon my inspection, if the seller reduces the price due to any mechanical/safety/SB/repairs/etc issues......I DO NOT accept a commission as the buyer needs those funds for obvious reasons. In this case I simply collect my $250 brokerage fee. People have been extremely happy with this service.

Now, regarding ?the story? that the OP ?heard? in post 1 of this thread:

About 6 weeks ago I was contacted by a gentleman requesting a purchase and prebuy on an RV7. This particular RV7 was owned by an acquaintance of mine and was actually built by Mr. Fruehling. During the course of our conversation I shared my fees as outlined above. The gentleman said that he and the seller had already agreed on a price and that he only needed a prebuy. He had the owners friend call me to set up the day and time for the prebuy. Ironically, the weather was uncooperative on that morning so I didn?t even do the prebuy.

Fast forward to today: I have no idea how the above turned into the ?story that I heard?. My only guess is that my communication with the gentleman who wanted the prebuy was not clear and/or he misunderstood. Either way I fault neither him or myself.

Many of you know me very well, I consider myself to be a hard working individual and I try very hard to be honest and trustworthy with my fellow man. I spend countless hours each week on the phone with RV guys answering their questions and consulting with them about their projects. I do this happily and never charge a dime, many folks charge for what I do for free.

Some of you don?t have a clue who I am and one guy has threatened to ?crucify me? if he doesn?t like what I say (?ssmdive? post 53). I realize that this is ?the internet? and as Doug Reeves says ?The Haters Are Going To Hate?. If you don?t agree with my prebuy fees or my broker fees then simply call someone else.

Threatening to ?crucify me? on a public forum is more than I bargained for. I can only hope that Doug Reeves bans ?ssmdive? for life.

Rick

You outline a flat fee for the pre-purchase inspection and a commission for the sale price reduction. Do you ever provide both services for the same deal or do you only offer one or the other for an individual deal? Maybe this is where the misunderstanding occurred.

[SMO]

Well, I'm glad the story I heard was not true. It certainly ran counter to the integrity I have come to expect from this community. And I had no idea who the protagonist (def: leading character in a fictional story) was.

I apologize for any angst my post caused.

Explanations trump suppression every time!

[ChiefPilot]

There are two broad categories of information here on VAF. One is useful, knowledgeable, valuable information.

This thread isn't in that category.