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POSTING RULES

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08-24-2016, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer
This is the sort of BS that makes people hate government agencies...it's clear that if you have an ADAHRS, you don't have to have an antique wet compass. So how come employees of the Federal AVIATION Administration don't understand this? Are they not trained? Are they not getting directions or memos or annual training in the jobs they are supposed to do.
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The problem isn't the employees. It's the regulations that aren't keeping pace with technology. We have amazing glass panel, radio, ads-b, etc. technology available to us in the Amateur-Built market that certified aircraft aren't allowed to use... Until the regulations change, which can take forever, that's the way it is. The rank-and-file who you actually deal with face-to-face are just doing their job enforcing the rules as they stand.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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08-24-2016, 08:54 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake
The problem isn't the employees. It's the regulations that aren't keeping pace with technology. We have amazing glass panel, radio, ads-b, etc. technology available to us in the Amateur-Built market that certified aircraft aren't allowed to use... Until the regulations change, which can take forever, that's the way it is. The rank-and-file who you actually deal with face-to-face are just doing their job enforcing the rules as they stand.
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Maybe that is your perspective in Canada, but when the U.S. rules just say the requirement is that you have a "Magnetic Heading Indicator" but an inspector still requires an additional mag. compass with an EFIS, even though the EFIS derives its heading with a magnetometer sensing the same magnetic field of the earth that the mag. compass does, then that is a case of an inspector writing their own rules.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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08-24-2016, 11:19 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Good point, Scott, you are correct. Canada is just *slightly* more restrictive in the wording... Just enough to be annoying. 
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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08-24-2016, 02:26 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828
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This really tweaks my hide, this is like saying we have to use a manual Frankenstein movie style blade contactor instead of an electric relay solenoid. It does the same thing, one Mag Direction Indicator needs 12 volts, the other does not, but it dose the same thing, one is floating and simple, the other is not, BUT, it does the same *&%#$@ thing! Just glad we don't need to burn a wick in oil for landing lights 
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7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
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08-24-2016, 09:22 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bret
This really tweaks my hide, this is like saying we have to use a manual Frankenstein movie style blade contactor instead of an electric relay solenoid. It does the same thing, one Mag Direction Indicator needs 12 volts, the other does not, but it dose the same thing, one is floating and simple, the other is not, BUT, it does the same *&%#$@ thing! Just glad we don't need to burn a wick in oil for landing lights 
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The good news, however, is that the Reno FSDO did sign off on our Tundra with no wet compass - just a three-screen Skyview system. So there is hope for them.
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Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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08-24-2016, 09:50 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
The good news, however, is that the Reno FSDO did sign off on our Tundra with no wet compass - just a three-screen Skyview system. So there is hope for them.
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That's good to hear Paul, that's who I will be using hopefully by the end of this year, #2 on hanger wait list 
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7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
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08-25-2016, 07:17 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
Maybe that is your perspective in Canada, but when the U.S. rules just say the requirement is that you have a "Magnetic Heading Indicator" but an inspector still requires an additional mag. compass with an EFIS, even though the EFIS derives its heading with a magnetometer sensing the same magnetic field of the earth that the mag. compass does, then that is a case of an inspector writing their own rules.
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The rules as written in Canada do not require a wet compass, they require a magnetic heading indication device that can operate independently form the main electrical generating system.
Some idiot at TC offered an interpretation that because something is connected to said electrical system, it therefore cannot operate independently from it. Really you have to read the interpretation to believe it, makes NO Sense.
So we in Canada are stuck installing wet compasses, despite the clear intent of the rule otherwise.
This issue drives me so bonkers, I expect I will try to fight it when my time comes!
<end rant>
So yeah, you lucky Americans, no wet compass needed 
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J.F.
Sling 4 empennage kit on order!
Future EAA 245 Member (Hopefully)
Current Piper Warrior PA-28-151 Owner/Pilot
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://www.sling4.ninja
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08-25-2016, 09:53 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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JF - it ain't worth fighting over. I have previously pointed out that Transport Canada has approved several airliners which have electronic compasses, yet they can't see their way clear to doing likewise for GA aircraft. Nobody ever said that the folks we pay to interpret the regulations must produce a logical interpretation or an interpretation with which the majority of concerned parties must agree. In short, our bureaucrats have ultimate authority with zero accountability. There's precious little we can do to change that situation.
With this being the case, install a compass - it doesn't have to be an expensive TSO'd one - and ensure you have installed a compass correction card. You can go to Canadian Tire and pick up a boating compass if you wish (check with our local EAA chapter president who recently came through an MD-RA Final Inspection with just such a device installed). You can affix it with a suction cup if you wish, and oh darn, it might have fallen off after the final inspection was completed. It's just not a big enough deal to get our knickers in a knot over.
On the other hand, I am upgrading the compass in our Sportsman and will have a brand new Airpath unit available. I am one who happens to enjoy having a piece of stone-age technology in the airplane. Our "daily flyer" aircraft has a WWII-vintage compass installed - it still works just fine and I don't see any harm in having a link to the past flying along with me.
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08-25-2016, 10:42 AM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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When my RV-6 was inspected in 1999, my panel with no clock dials was the first one my DAR had seen. Even though the Rocky Mtn uEncoder had a magnetometer, I installed a compass in case it became an issue:
The only comment my wise DAR had was that I needed a correction card for it. Once he left the airport the compass was relegated to a desk drawer where it still resides today.
Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 08-25-2016 at 10:44 AM.
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09-08-2016, 05:09 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Hobbs, NM
Posts: 239
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Thanks everyone for all of the input! I think I will go without the classic compass. If the ADAHRS fails, I have Foreflight on two iPads with a bluetooth GPS antenna, may trade it for a Stratus eventually. Besides, I have a compass on my iPhone too! From what I read, the iPhone compass is not dependent on GPS.
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Ben
RV-7A Tip Up Airworthy on 12/20/2016
RV-10 Emp 95% complete - sold
RV-14A Empennage Done waiting on front fuse kit to show up.
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