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08-23-2016, 08:26 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake
In Canada the regulation requires a magnetic compass that operates independent of the aircraft electrical system. The Skyview is wired into the electrical system, so isn't independent, and as a result in Canada you'd need a compass.
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Not a requirement in the U.S.A., but some level of back up is not a bad idea. That is why since I have a single AFS 5600 screen in my airplane, I fly with my phone mounted on the panel in a temp mount with the Garmin Pilot app running on it. It provides a reliable back-up to a large majority of the capabilities of the EFIS.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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08-23-2016, 08:32 AM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bret
now, FAR 91.205 states what is required for ( standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates ) with the magnetic direction indicator, but do all theses rules under 91.205 still apply to our Experimental Special airworthiness certificate ?
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The answer is "no", because you don't have a "standard" airworthiness certificate (rules are very binary in that regard). However, there is at least one inspector at the Reno FSDO that does not understand the difference between the words "standard" and "special", despite them having different number of letters and different spellings....
Ops Lims, of course, shoudl be consulted to see if they slipped in something requiring 91.205 equipment for your type of flying (night, IFR, etc.)
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Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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08-23-2016, 08:38 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 319
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RV-6 panel is fine. Just... fine.
2019 VAF dues paid!
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08-23-2016, 08:43 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bret
Just to expand and complicate an interesting discussion, when the word independent is used, does that context refer to the aircraft electrical system?
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In Canada the regs specifically state *aircraft* electrical system. Or they did the last time I looked a number of years ago.
Quote:
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A question, is the IPad battery powered running Wing X, and ILevil battery powered AHRS qualify for independent magnetic direction indicator?
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In Canada, in my opinion, yes, this would qualify. That opinion has not been tested via a ramp check however. I'm assuming the iPad and iLevil are connected via WiFi or Bluetooth, not hard-wired.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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08-23-2016, 08:53 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,596
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As I found out, what satisfies the requirement is of little consequence.
I'm in the camp that today's ADAHRS modules more than meet the letter of the law for magnetic reference. But - the Washington DC FSDO office made it clear they would not sign off on the plane without a TSO whiskey compass.
I chose not to fight the bear and installed this one: http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/stor...t=sirs-compass
The upside is it calibrates well and looks pretty. Every once in awhile I actually check to make sure it indicates the same as the SkyView.
So, find out what your inspector wants to see.
Carl
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08-23-2016, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 2,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich
As I found out, what satisfies the requirement is of little consequence.
I'm in the camp that today's ADAHRS modules more than meet the letter of the law for magnetic reference. But - the Washington DC FSDO office made it clear they would not sign off on the plane without a TSO whiskey compass.
I chose not to fight the bear and installed this one: http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/stor...t=sirs-compass
The upside is it calibrates well and looks pretty. Every once in awhile I actually check to make sure it indicates the same as the SkyView.
So, find out what your inspector wants to see.
Carl
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Ahh I know the specific inspector of whom you speak. Forewarned for my airworthiness inspection (and also unwilling to fight the battle), I bought a panel mount compass to replace my backup PFD just for the inspection. Fab'd up a filler bracket and everything. Never installed it though as it turned out I drew another inspector out of the FDSO who didn't care one iota about it.
However, he did get his in the end -- the unnamed inspector in question did my repairman's cert interview and it's wasn't a cake walk. 
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Todd "I drink and know things" Stovall
PP ASEL-IA
RV-10 N728TT - Flying!
WAR EAGLE!
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08-23-2016, 09:27 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich
I'm in the camp that today's ADAHRS modules more than meet the letter of the law for magnetic reference. But - the Washington DC FSDO office made it clear they would not sign off on the plane without a TSO whiskey compass.
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This is the sort of BS that makes people hate government agencies...it's clear that if you have an ADAHRS, you don't have to have an antique wet compass. So how come employees of the Federal AVIATION Administration don't understand this? Are they not trained? Are they not getting directions or memos or annual training in the jobs they are supposed to do?
I know *I* don't get to make up nonsensical interpretations of the rules at MY job...
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08-23-2016, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,012
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How much travelling do you plan to do?
Personally, I installed a vertical card mag compass when I already had an electronic device just because I don't want some fed, who either doesn't understand or is on a personal anti-glass crusade, selecting me for closer scrutiny. Do I use it? Never. Would I, even with an EFIS failure? Never. I have two, very reliable, very capable "portable" devices to help me navigate. Just do not like getting certified letters in the mail. And if I lose the GPS network and my EFIS device simultaneously, well then I guess the jig is up.
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Bryan
Houston
Last edited by Low Pass : 08-23-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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08-23-2016, 02:36 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,692
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As has already been said, compass not necessarily required if you have another type of magnetic heading indicator.
I just wanted to post my experience to bolster the points a few others have made that when the electronic version of magnetic heading indicator fails, it is nice to have that bouncy, floaty thing available to get you home. It has done so for me on a couple of occasions.
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Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.
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08-23-2016, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 2,052
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Shucks Fellas....
True story.
We need a back up compass, ASI and Alti if we use glass in the UK.
That is the only time I buy Falcon instruments btw
So - time goes by and we update our install to include a Garmin 695 just in front of the fuel selector on our 7. Great location, no glare, easy to see, remote antenna etc etc.
A while later, a buddy points to the compass and says - it's way out. Like 30? out. Mmmmmm, better check.
Why, oh why, do Garmin make their antennas magnetic ?
The compass is just looking at the Garmin antenna on the coaming now. Must be love 
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"I add a little excitement, a little spice to your lives, and all you do is complain!" - Q
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