Rust vs Us

[BillL]

Originally Posted by az_gila

Can you use a microwave?

Not recommended as the temperature can not be controlled as well.

Here is where I got my beads. Note there are many different kinds of desiccant and some are higher temp than others. I am getting a toaster oven for $40 to put at the airport for mine.

https://www.sorbentsystems.com/index.html

[JonJay]

Originally Posted by hevansrv7a

I disagree as I explained initially regarding flying as a preventive measure, let alone "best". I'm not saying don't do it, only that it won't do a thing for moisture and moisture is necessary for rust. It creates more moisture. Why is that point so often overlooked?

I note in passing that some say once a week, some say once a month. It's well known how fast the oil drains off the parts so I don't know where this particular bit of wisdom is coming from. If "premium" oils with whatever additives they contain were sufficient I suspect we would not be having this conversation.

Your not adding moisture each time you fly. What you generated last flight after shut down is displaced by the oil when you start up, circulates, gets heated and boiled, and blown out the breather or "suspended" (probably a bad word) in the oil ready to condense inside the engine when you shut down.
When running, almost all of the water is going out with the exhaust. It is an impressive amount as you know. Only a fraction is left to condense. That fraction is the concern.
I think this is a good discussion, but using a premium oil or additive and flying regularly is sage advice received from operators I know who exceed TBO in their fleet(s). This isn't arguable. What is flying frequently enough? Probably has a lot of factors like how the engine is operated to the environment it is operated in.
I'm moving to Bakersfield.! (Uhhh, No, I'm not regardless of the pay)
What seems to be arguable is the benefit of a dehumidifier, which I would summize correlates with how much you do or do not fly and the relative humidity you keep the machine in.

[BillL]

Originally Posted by erich weaver

So then how fast DOES oil drain off parts? Whats well known/reported is that the primary reason for engines not making TBO is them sitting long periods of time between flights so that they do not have a protective coating of oil. You may well be correct that a dehumidifiers would improve things further, but I havent seen the data for that nor even wide-spread claims that that is indeed the case.

erich

One has only to look for the data. Read part three of this article. It addresses the oil run off effects in a humidity chamber. And follows up with a rust test with a dehydrator.

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Article-Sutton.pdf

no oil - 4 days
oiled - 5 days
cam guard - 19 days

[JonJay]

Originally Posted by BillL

One has only to look for the data. Read part three of this article. It addresses the oil run off effects in a humidity chamber.

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Article-Sutton.pdf

no oil - 4 days
oiled - 5 days
cam guard - 19 days

Bill - your an engineer. I am not. However, there is so much wrong with this testing methodology, I don't even know where to start. Lifters are not left in free air inside our engine. They are also full of oil. Oiled parts make contact with other oiled parts. Of course a bare piece of metal is going to rust in short order in free air and of course oil will run off of parts in time. There is no argument an engine that has been sitting will show some signs of corrosion in a sensitive oil analysis. I bet that would show in short order too.
What isn't known is at what point it starts to impact the life of the engine. Having operated multiple engines past TBO without anything other than normal and prudent operating, and consulting with others of much greater experience than I, I am just not entirely buying into to the statements made in the article you posted.
If you are in an environment conducive to corrosion, And don't fly often, the benefit to your steel parts might be there. However, this isn't going to help keep seals and gaskets fresh like flying will. I would also argue that blowing air past parts might actually scavenge oil away from them that otherwise might be happily sitting there. I will stick with my whole room dehumidifier which makes my hangar a better environment, not just the engine.

[hevansrv7a]

Originally Posted by erich weaver

So then how fast DOES oil drain off parts? Whats well known/reported is that the primary reason for engines not making TBO is them sitting long periods of time between flights so that they do not have a protective coating of oil. You may well be correct that a dehumidifiers would improve things further, but I havent seen the data for that nor even wide-spread claims that that is indeed the case.

erich

search on "aviation boneyard".
example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_boneyard
Thus I believe that the wide-spread claims have indeed been made, at least in that context and there's a lot of $$ at stake.

I am not arguing against a whole hangar dehumidifier at all but not all hangars nor in all locations can keep everything above the dewpoint. The real issue is that the dewpoint inside the engine shortly after touchdown will not be affected by the whole hangar approach.

[David_Nelson]

If you do go the route of an aquarium air pump and desiccant beads please don't let the unit sit on the floor during use.

Last year, one of the local airports flooded and some planes managed to keep their fuselages above the water level. It'd be a crying shame if that little aquarium air pump filled your engine with water because it was sitting on the floor or a small stool/platform when only the gear legs got wet.

[Bcone1381]

Originally Posted by erich weaver

So then how fast DOES oil drain off parts? Whats well known/reported is that the primary reason for engines not making TBO is them sitting long periods of time between flights so that they do not have a protective coating of oil. You may well be correct that a dehumidifiers would improve things further, but I havent seen the data for that nor even wide-spread claims that that is indeed the case.

erich

By and Large, We don't wear engines out, we rust them out. It just makes sense to keep the inside of an engine dry to prevent rust. Oil drain off is also part of the problem. Using a single grade viscosity oil like Aeroshell W100 with Camguard is the best way I know of to help slow down the oil drain off. Attack the rust problem with a multi prog approach.

[JonJay]

Originally Posted by hevansrv7a

I am not arguing against a whole hangar dehumidifier at all but not all hangars nor in all locations can keep everything above the dewpoint. The real issue is that the dewpoint inside the engine shortly after touchdown will not be affected by the whole hangar approach.

Your not going to impact the dew point much with an aquarium pump. What we are fighting is a high temperature, high hunidity environment that is rapidly cooling. You won't be able to catch up. What you are doing with your set up is starting the process of lowering the humidity by scavenging the water out of the system.
Now, where is that water going? Your beads lower the humidity of the air surrounding it (hangar air) and put it into your case. It then goes out the exhaust pipe and back into the same air in the hangar. Your beads can only absorb so much water out of the hangar air until they are saturated. If your hangar is a high humidity environment, the beads are not going to last as long.
I keep my hangar at 50% relative humidity. I can take a water saturated coat and it will hang dry in less than 24 hours. Since our engines are open to the air, I expect a similar result in my engine. The water isn't staying in the hangar. It is going down the drain.
So, there is a lot going on that affects what may or may not be effective, mostly the environment you store your airplane in. I believe that has the biggest impact on engine and airframe health, but, again, I am not moving to Bakersfield!

[Plummit]

Originally Posted by mbishop

Cheapest? I've looked at the housing prices in California.

"Cheapest? I've looked at the housing prices in California."

Never mind the housing prices, have you seen the taxes??? ;-)

~Marc

[BillL]

Originally Posted by Plummit

"Cheapest? I've looked at the housing prices in California."

Never mind the housing prices, have you seen the taxes??? ;-)

~Marc

Yeah - they are low too!!! - the property taxes are 3-4X lower than mine in Illinois. The median home in Marin Co is $688k, median taxes are $5700. Dang low rate.