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07-28-2016, 07:26 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Jacksonville,Fl. 32246
Posts: 270
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For vfr flying I p!an to go with PLB ,as it offers everything except automation ! Tom
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Tomcat RV4
RV4 gone to RV heaven !building Zenith 701
dues paid and worth every penny
Life is uncertain -Eat desert first !
U F O Member since Dec 2017
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07-28-2016, 07:33 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Posts: 353
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If you're going to install a fixed ELT, make it 406 ... there is NO point in 121.5 at this point, waste of money, it's not being monitored. Not sure you'd save any money either.
Want redundancy, get a 406 AF and a PLB.
I think I saw Canada now has a deadline on 406 installations ... Mexico keeps pushing theirs back, haven't heard of a mandate in the US yet ... but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea ...
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J.F.
Sling 4 empennage kit on order!
Future EAA 245 Member (Hopefully)
Current Piper Warrior PA-28-151 Owner/Pilot
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://www.sling4.ninja
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07-28-2016, 07:55 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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RV7A Flyer wrote:
"So what's the difference between a 406 MHz ELT and a PLB, really? Essentially, only the automation of initiating a signal, right? They're both GPS-based, satellite-detected, and initiate S&R immediately upon receipt of first signal, IIRC."
A couple of points of education here, if I may...
1) neither ELT nor PLB are GPS-based. they can both use GPS position to narrow the search area, but the primary means of location remains the production of a small search area through multiple passes of LEO satellites (soon to be MEO satellites), using Doppler, to locate the transmitter. If that transmitter is sending GPS information then that GPS position is provided to SAR via a geostationary satellite and virtually eliminates the need for multiple LEO satellites, thus giving SAR your position within minutes.
2) 121.5 ELTs are NOT satellite detected, and haven't been for several years. If your 121.5 ELT goes off, you're reliant on an over-flying aircraft hearing your transmission, then finding the transmitter is done by brute-force searching with airplanes and people. There is no way to take even a rough position hack off your 121.5 transmission - that died when the last 121.5 satellite splashed down in the ocean. Again, 121.5 ELT signals are NOT monitored by COSPAS-SARSAT, period.
3) a 121.5 ELT + a PLB does NOT = redundancy. A 406 ELT + a PLB = redundancy. Again, no big brother up in the heavens is looking for your 121.5 signal. A 121.5 ELT signal does NOT initiate SAR unless somebody just happens to hear it. Do you want to take the chance that you're unconscious, bleeding out, with your PLB hanging dormant on your harness? Think about it!
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07-28-2016, 08:04 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828
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read this review:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/...ad_integra.php
within minutes he had a call when he accidently activated it and sarsat located him within 100 feet and this was in a metal hanger and no antenna.
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7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
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07-28-2016, 08:52 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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I have a similar story. Elapsed time from activation to resolution of the alarm was 8 minutes when a mechanic managed to turn on the brand new ELT he was installing. The best part of the story was the false alarm was dealt with by a few phone calls. No airplanes were scrambled, no lives were put at risk.
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07-28-2016, 10:18 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcat RV4
For vfr flying I p!an to go with PLB ,as it offers everything except automation ! Tom
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??? Here in the US EAB aircraft are not exempt from the ELT rules. You need to have one, unless you fit into one of the exemptions (e.g., no passengers, ever).
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07-28-2016, 10:22 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY
I have a similar story. Elapsed time from activation to resolution of the alarm was 8 minutes when a mechanic managed to turn on the brand new ELT he was installing. The best part of the story was the false alarm was dealt with by a few phone calls. No airplanes were scrambled, no lives were put at risk.
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Come on now. They don't scramble airplanes everytime an ELT goes off. I would assume they follow a similar regiment to what they have always done? If it goes off at an airport, like Bret's example, or in an urban area, they will assume a false alarm and follow that protocol.
Not lost on the point. I have learned a lot about the capabilities of the "new" ELT's and they are obviously worlds ahead of where we where before. Being able to quickly discern and qualify alarms (false alarms probably occur more often than real emergencies) is a huge plus.
I look forward to hearing more from others experiences and opinions.
I am glad this thread was started.
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Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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07-28-2016, 10:39 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay
Come on now. They don't scramble airplanes everytime an ELT goes off. I would assume they follow a similar regiment to what they have always done? If it goes off at an airport, like Bret's example, or in an urban area, they will assume a false alarm and follow that protocol.
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Well, all too often SAR resources ARE scrambled for 121.5 ELTs. That's the challenge of the 121.5 technology - it's totally anonymous. Its the registration of the 406 beacon that allows a rapid and tightly-targetted communications search. It's these communications searches that are proving to be so effective in weeding out false alarms.
While I am not an active member of the Canadian CASARA (civil SAR organization) my hangar-mate is, as are several flying friends. I can assure you they get scrambled frequently to search for 121.5 ELTs that are in hangars, trunks of cars, etc. Not very long ago we had a Herc spend about an hour circling one of the local suburbs, thanks to a 121.5 ELT transmitting from a person's home. Scrambling airplanes to look for 121.5 ELT's is still happening, all too frequently.
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07-28-2016, 10:46 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY
Well, all too often SAR resources ARE scrambled for 121.5 ELTs. That's the challenge of the 121.5 technology - it's totally anonymous. Its the registration of the 406 beacon that allows a rapid and tightly-targetted communications search. It's these communications searches that are proving to be so effective in weeding out false alarms.
While I am not an active member of the Canadian CASARA (civil SAR organization) my hangar-mate is, as are several flying friends. I can assure you they get scrambled frequently to search for 121.5 ELTs that are in hangars, trunks of cars, etc. Not very long ago we had a Herc spend about an hour circling one of the local suburbs, thanks to a 121.5 ELT transmitting from a person's home. Scrambling airplanes to look for 121.5 ELT's is still happening, all too frequently.
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They just sent some young recruits from the local sheriffs office to my garage when the kids accidently activated mine during a move. Pretty sure they knew an airplane wasn't in distress in a heavily populated area given the fact that nobody called 911. Perhaps they do things differently in Canada. 
__________________
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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07-28-2016, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828
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It looks like the G trigger is in the forward direction, thinking about mounting in the spot designated in the plans behind the baggage wall, upside down but still forward arranged forward, and then install a Lexan window on the bottom of the fuse, in case a crash and end up upside down, and the external antenna gets damaged or coax severed, the internal GPS antenna can see the sky and yell for HELP? YES-NO? any other thoughts-ideas?
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7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
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