P-Mag, Electro-Air, or EFII

[Bill Palmer]

FasGlas,

Electroair has more installs than EFII, because it has been out much longer and is an older design. The Electroair performs similarly to the Lightspeed Plasma III CDI in that it has a similar spark duration equivalent to 20 degrees of crankshaft rotation. (See Electroair FAQ #2.) The EFII system delivers full coil output over 36 degrees and has the most installs of a modern, inductive ignition. BTW, EFII did try to find an Electroair to test, but could not find a volunteer.

Also, SDS/CPI is quite vocal, but cannot come close to matching the number of EFII?s installs, satisfied customers, and successful flight experience.

On the other hand, I do agree with Ross (SDS/CPI) that it?s best for an individual to do their own analysis and make their own decision based on their own needs and missions. Those of us here on VAF are naturally biased by our own research, knowledge, experience, and decisions. Since there are a number of choices out there, anyone asking about electronic ignitions is going to get a mix of facts, opinions, and mine is the best! It?s hard to get an objective view, because everyone is so subjective! Peace to All!

It should be noted that EFII is the only ignition provider with a complete solution including a ?Bus Manager? product designed to support redundant electrical sources and keep the power flowing to the essential bus including the ignitions. In other words, an EFII-equipped engine is, in a way, self-powered via more power sources than a P-Mag-equipped engine and does not have the P-Mag?s low rpm limitations. Also, EFII has a FADEC upgrade option including full credit for an existing EFII electronic ignition system. EFII has carefully thought about the whole ?electric engine? concept; not just part of it!

As an aside:

http://www.flyefii.com/customer-proj...-super-legacy/

[M McGraw]

Originally Posted by Bill Palmer

FasGlas,

Electroair has more installs than EFII, because it has been out much longer and is an older design. The Electroair performs similarly to the Lightspeed Plasma III CDI in that it has a similar spark duration equivalent to 20 degrees of crankshaft rotation. (See Electroair FAQ #2.) The EFII system delivers full coil output over 36 degrees and has the most installs of a modern, inductive ignition. BTW, EFII did try to find an Electroair to test, but could not find a volunteer.

Also, SDS/CPI is quite vocal, but cannot come close to matching the number of EFII?s installs, satisfied customers, and successful flight experience.

On the other hand, I do agree with Ross (SDS/CPI) that it?s best for an individual to do their own analysis and make their own decision based on their own needs and missions. Those of us here on VAF are naturally biased by our own research, knowledge, experience, and decisions. Since there are a number of choices out there, anyone asking about electronic ignitions is going to get a mix of facts, opinions, and mine is the best! It?s hard to get an objective view, because everyone is so subjective! Peace to All!

It should be noted that EFII is the only ignition provider with a complete solution including a ?Bus Manager? product designed to support redundant electrical sources and keep the power flowing to the essential bus including the ignitions. In other words, an EFII-equipped engine is, in a way, self-powered via more power sources than a P-Mag-equipped engine and does not have the P-Mag?s low rpm limitations. Also, EFII has a FADEC upgrade option including full credit for an existing EFII electronic ignition system. EFII has carefully thought about the whole ?electric engine? concept; not just part of it!

As an aside:

http://www.flyefii.com/customer-proj...-super-legacy/

It would be fair to mention that the computer for EFii was developed and is supplied by SDS. Also, it seems quite logical to assume the software inside the CPi uses the knowledge gained by developing the SDS computer. It may even be a copy of the ignition side of the SDS computer? Perhaps Ross could verify that?

[FasGlas]

ElectroAir is not a CD ignition, it is an inductive ignition. It has been in aviation use far longer than EFII. I have known many pilots that have and still use their ElectroAir without one failure. I had used an ElectroAir for nearly 10 years without one failure. I now use 2 pmags and I can tell you that the 2 pmags have far less performance than 1 ElectroAir. It was originally an automotive ignition that Jeff Rose modified for aviation, than later added the MAP sensor. Jeff was bought out more than a dozen years ago and the same basic system is still being built. I have not seen a failure in any, new or old, ElectroAir systems. Any EI can be connected to a dual buss. I don't know why EFII couldn't find an ElectroAir to compare to, there are thousands of them. Heck, I have 2 complete systems in my hangar. I have nothing bad to say about EFII, I haven't tried one. I have a friend that deals and installs them and he likes them. Pmags suck. Klaus has the worst service in the biz and they fail. But ElectroAir is one of the best systems money can buy. That's fact. The only certified as well.

[APACHE 56]

Originally Posted by RV8Squaz

I know Dan H is a big fan of the EFII. Anyone have any opinions about the system listed above? Pros and cons of each aside from price?

Thank you so much!

1. Whatever I have is better than a competitors system.
2. Caveat emptor
3. This forum has thousands of words written about electronic ignition's. Do yourself a favor and do the research.

[upperdeck]

Originally Posted by Bill Palmer

Also, EFII has a FADEC upgrade option including full credit for an existing EFII electronic ignition system. EFII has carefully thought about the whole ?electric engine

What is this FADEC upgrade of which you speak?

[erich weaver]

Originally Posted by FasGlas

Pmags suck. Klaus has the worst service in the biz and they fail. But ElectroAir is one of the best systems money can buy. That's fact.

Stop sugar-coating it and tell us what you really think.

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by M McGraw

It would be fair to mention that the computer for EFii was developed and is supplied by SDS. Also, it seems quite logical to assume the software inside the CPi uses the knowledge gained by developing the SDS computer. It may even be a copy of the ignition side of the SDS computer? Perhaps Ross could verify that?

Simple Digital System develops all of our own software and hardware in-house and has since 1994. EFII buys the same ECUs, programmers and Hall Effect pickups SDS sells for our aviation systems. The ECUs have the same software although SDS activates certain optional features which EFII does not use for their customers. SDS also offers a dual board programmer to access a dual ECUs with a single programmer.

EFII use the same Subaru coil packs as we do on our 4 cylinder systems. We use a different coil pack on our 6 cylinder systems.

SDS has used internal coil sub drivers for several years while EFII was using an external sub driver of their own design. I believe EFII is now using the SDS sub drivers on-board.

The CPI uses much of the same ignition software and microprocessor, power supply, filtering hardware etc. as the current generation EM-5 ECU and is also related to another SDS product line, the EIC/XIC which has been out over 15 years years now. All told, we are talking about over 10,000 production units sharing similar architecture with millions of hours of running time on them collectively. Few companies in this field can make that claim since they don't have the vast automotive background to go with the aviation one.

Yes, all of this is evolutionary and applies lessons learned. If I look back at the EM-1 from 1994, it seems pretty crude by the standards of today, although it did the basic job well enough. We still have people using these in aircraft and cars.

Our philosophy has always been to listen carefully to customer feedback to improve the product, which has been invaluable. We also never design marginally which is why there's no external cooling requirement on our ECUs or CPI.

We drive and fly our own hardware and when we discover something that's not as good as it could be, we improve it from that angle too. Our growing and learning pains are far in the past but we still believe testing the product to well beyond what it's likely to see in the real world is a necessity before releasing it for sale. Every EI manufacturer has learned some hard lesson like this at some point I think.

We came from the racing world and we raced our product at Reno in Sport Class too where we won the Gold Championship in 2010- at over 750hp and 3200 rpm/ 70+ inches MAP. The automotive racing world demands higher performance ignitions systems than most aviation projects due to the much higher rpms and cylinder pressures- up to 10,000 rpm and 150 inches MAP.

Finally, we believe great customer and tech support is paramount to building a good reputation, repeat sales and indeed, survival in this competitive and ever changing market. If we screw up, we'll make it right at our expense. If you need help, you can talk with the system designer if need be to get things working. You'll always get timely responses to your phone calls or emails- within the realities that we also have to have a life outside of the business of course.

We treat every order as a custom one since no two people or aircraft are alike. We'll tailor wiring and components supplied to your requirements and preferences.

[Toobuilder]

Deleted - Redundant to Ross' post

[FasGlas]

Originally Posted by erich weaver

Stop sugar-coating it and tell us what you really think.

Haha... OK, I want to see a hand count.... How many people love calling Klaus for service??? I believe I just read a post last week from a guy that removed his plasma ignition and tossed it just cuz he didn't want to call Klaus anymore.


I agree with APACHE 56. Do some homework and see what ignition suits your needs. They are all different: Cost, performance, installation and setup, failure rate, service. Don't believe everything you read or hear from manufactures, they are all trying to sell you something.

[PIN 37]

The Lightspeed map seems to be spot on, but, well, you know the rest.

Ah well I dont actually, I am in Australia and have got Plasma III's on my aircraft (almost finished), care to elaborate