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  #31  
Old 07-16-2016, 01:07 PM
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jdearborn jdearborn is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 141
Default Write Jack

Thank you.

To that end I just dropped a letter to Jack Pelton in the mail. I asked him to look into putting together a 'Cliff's Notes' concerning Repairman's Certificates, both for FSDO staff members and builders.

I hope other members of the Forum will do the same. His address:
Mr. Jack J. Pelton
EAA Chairman of the Board
3000 Poberezny Road
Oshkosh, WI 54902

Cheers
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  #32  
Old 07-17-2016, 09:29 AM
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Bluelabel Bluelabel is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdearborn View Post
Thank you.

To that end I just dropped a letter to Jack Pelton in the mail. I asked him to look into putting together a 'Cliff's Notes' concerning Repairman's Certificates, both for FSDO staff members and builders.

I hope other members of the Forum will do the same. His address:
Mr. Jack J. Pelton
EAA Chairman of the Board
3000 Poberezny Road
Oshkosh, WI 54902

Cheers
Well, I had no idea this post might actually turn into getting some positive change. I was just hoping for some answers and feedback, but hey, I guess this is what happens when enough motivated people see something needing to be fixed...

Nice work!
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  #33  
Old 07-17-2016, 11:04 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Location: North Alabama
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Is difficulty obtaining a Repairman's Certificate routinely occurring or is it just an exception? One bad experience prompted this thread but is this justification for creating a document that a 'bad' FAA official would probably ignore anyway?

Just asking.

My latest visit to the Bhm FSDO for a Repairman's Certificate took fifteen minutes in the office to complete and the FAA inspector was pleasant to deal with. But I had done my homework and knew precisely what he was going to ask and wanted to look at....and I think he quickly picked up on that. Most of my time was spent filling out a fresh 8610-2 because the inspector wanted the applicant information to match my pilot certificate, not the aircraft registration.

Just wish the process could be accomplished without spending most of a day driving to the FSDO.
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 07-17-2016 at 11:15 AM.
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  #34  
Old 07-17-2016, 12:00 PM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Location: Tampa, FL
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Default Data point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
Is difficulty obtaining a Repairman's Certificate routinely occurring or is it just an exception?
I went through the Washington DC FSDO -- no issues getting my repairman's certificate. The process was straight forward but took a little over an hour as the inspector really wanted to put my knowledge to the test to insure I had some clue as to how to conduct the condition inspection and handle routine maintenance tasks.

The process of getting my AWC from this same office, but different inspector, was a total goat rope, but that's another thread.
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  #35  
Old 07-17-2016, 12:35 PM
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Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
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Location: Landing field "12VA"
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Default Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
Is difficulty obtaining a Repairman's Certificate routinely occurring or is it just an exception? One bad experience prompted this thread but is this justification for creating a document that a 'bad' FAA official would probably ignore anyway?

Just asking.

My latest visit to the Bhm FSDO for a Repairman's Certificate took fifteen minutes in the office to complete and the FAA inspector was pleasant to deal with. But I had done my homework and knew precisely what he was going to ask and wanted to look at....and I think he quickly picked up on that. Most of my time was spent filling out a fresh 8610-2 because the inspector wanted the applicant information to match my pilot certificate, not the aircraft registration.

Just wish the process could be accomplished without spending most of a day driving to the FSDO.
Therein lies a rub, Sam. Going by my memory of the process 18 years ago with the RIC FSDO, it was a non-event - aside form the 6 hours spent on the road.

I recall nothing of the encounter that was necessary to do face-to-face for the proper issuance of the certificate, as I was the sole builder and had ample documentation of that fact for the DAR and the guy at the window at the FSDO. The whole process could have been handled, with assurance of my bona fides, by mail. Anything else is a long run for a short slide brought on by nothing more than mindless bureaucracy. If you work for Johnny Taxpayer (me), I don't have time for you to be mindless. What part of that do they not get?
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Last edited by Bill Boyd : 07-17-2016 at 12:39 PM.
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  #36  
Old 07-17-2016, 12:58 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Location: North Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
Therein lies a rub, Sam. Going by my memory of the process 18 years ago with the RIC FSDO, it was a non-event - aside form the 6 hours spent on the road.

I recall nothing of the encounter that was necessary to do face-to-face for the proper issuance of the certificate, as I was the sole builder and had ample documentation of that fact for the DAR and the guy at the window at the FSDO. The whole process could have been handled, with assurance of my bona fides, by mail. Anything else is a long run for a short slide brought on by nothing more than mindless bureaucracy. If you work for Johnny Taxpayer (me), I don't have time for you to be mindless. What part of that do they not get?
My RV-6 Repairman's Certificate was delivered via mail in 1999. My DAR sent a letter of recommendation with the application and the certificate was issued with no face-to-face required.

A hard copy of my internet build log satisfied the FAA inspector this time while I filled out the new 8610-2, and he didn't ask any questions to verify I was the builder. Perhaps if the aircraft in question had been an RV (built by a "professional"?) instead of with a sparse Fokker materials kit the interview might have been more detailed. The only comment he made while looking at the log was "That was a lot of work!".

I recall discussions when the personal visit was instituted that the FAA was attempting to discourage hired guns by requiring the "builder" show up at a FSDO. No doubt some 8610-2 forms have been falsified but at least the person requesting the certificate now has to show some degree of knowledge of the project via the interview.

If this is true, here is another example of a few bad apples messing up the whole process for the rest of us.
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 07-17-2016 at 01:27 PM.
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  #37  
Old 07-17-2016, 01:15 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
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Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
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Default A Bit of History

The repairmans certificate has only existed since the late 70's. Before that the EAB Airworthiness was only issued for one year. The FSDO inspector inspected the airplane every year and reissued a one year certificate. So as bad as things may be now, they are MUCH better than they were before the repairmans certificate.
50 years ago the FAA people generally had far better levels of experience and were much easier to deal with then, than most are today.
Ironically, despite a huge drop in many segments of GA activity, FAA FSDO staffing levels have increased significantly, some by a factor of six in 30 years. FSDO jobs 50 years ago did not offer great pay. Today the pay is quite good, significantly better in most cases than the private sector.
To be continued.
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  #38  
Old 07-17-2016, 01:17 PM
AV8AZ AV8AZ is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
If you work for Johnny Taxpayer (me), I don't have time for you to be mindless. What part of that do they not get?
I genuinely feel sorry for every civil servant who has to deal with this attitude. In addition to being disrespectful to the Fed, it makes it much harder for the rest of us.
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  #39  
Old 07-17-2016, 03:29 PM
N1Flyer N1Flyer is offline
 
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Location: Port Orange, FL
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John, as an EAA member, the EAA's government advocacy office is there to help you with issues you encountered. I recommend you call Tom Charpentier in Oshkosh (920) 426-6124 and talk to him. He should be able to work with the SAN FSDO to resolve this issue - or raise it to the proper level in FAA HQ in DC. Most FAA inspectors are reasonable and would be happy to explain exactly what is needed to get the job done. Unfortunately, you found one who chooses to bring a bad name to an otherwise good Agency.

If you like, feel free to call me and we can discuss it.

Rick Weiss
Chairman, Homebuilt Aircraft Council and EAA Board Member
RV-7A Builder (95% done) and Kitfox V Builder/Owner
386-679-9817 (Eastern Time)
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  #40  
Old 07-17-2016, 04:47 PM
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MikeyDale MikeyDale is offline
 
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I came in the office with a loose leaf binder full of my printed blog. My guy glanced at it and gave me a look that said "surely you don't expect me spent my valuable time looking thru that!" He did not look at it. Maybe its because he knew I had made the effort to provide him with one! I wasn't going to take any chances because I wanted that certificate!
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