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  #11  
Old 06-13-2013, 04:08 AM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Location: Louisville, Ga
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Default Maybe

Quote:
Originally Posted by GHRoss3 View Post
As Forest Gump said, Stupid is what Stupid Does.


Big Sky theory works most of the time but why risk your life and others.
Cheers,
George
I happen to be in the crop-dusting business, smack-dab in the middle of the Bulldog MOA.

Before it was formed, a bunch of uniformed Air Force types called a meeting with the local citizenry, about 30 years ago and I and several other Ag pilots attended. We all voiced our concerns about this MOA, in which 95% of my farmer/customers grow their crops in. We told them that we needed the lower 500' and if they could do that then we'd live happily ever after. So far, so good...we see them all the time, buzzing over us.

The problem arises when I go on a short trip to the coast when half of it is in the MOA. I can't wait 'til Monday and don't fly at night, so I go in being as vigilant as I can be...so far so good.

Best,
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2016, 05:07 PM
judoka5051 judoka5051 is offline
 
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Default Gone!

Hey All,

Loved seeandavoid. I noticed months ago that it wasn't being updated any more. Now the site doesn't even exist. Anyone know of an alternate source?

Thanks, Lance
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2016, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaziza View Post
Is it Prohibited, restricted areas or MOA's that have artillery fire and or live missile shots?? Had a Marine Corps chopper accidentally get blasted out of the sky by by "friendly" artillery fire in Vietnam a long time ago.
The local one near Florence, AZ is a Restricted area and is marked as "Intermittent, by NOTAM 48hrs in Advance" and I've rarely seen it closed.

It is a shooting range -

Florence Military Reservation
Camp Florence

Covering over 40 square mile (25,752 acres) of Lower Sonoran Desert, Florence Military Reservation (FMR) is managed by the Arizona Army National Guard in cooperation with other state and federal agencies. The Reservation is home to artillery and small-arms training ranges. Camp Florence is the main training site for the Arizona Army National Guard, primarily for weekend and two-week annual training periods. It supports squad, platoon, company, and battalion-level tactical training for artillery, aviation, cavalry, engineer, military police, maintenance, signal, transportation and explosive ordnance disposal units.
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:46 AM
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Lenny Iszak Lenny Iszak is offline
 
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Location: Palm City, FL
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Default

Logan,

You can get MOA status here:

https://sua.faa.gov

That data is also available from the ADSB feed. Don't know if anyone is implementing it yet to display it on the map.


Lenny

Quote:
Originally Posted by judoka5051 View Post
Hey All,

Loved seeandavoid. I noticed months ago that it wasn't being updated any more. Now the site doesn't even exist. Anyone know of an alternate source?

Thanks, Lance
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:31 PM
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Chattin35 Chattin35 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 261
Default Flight following through MOA's

Could be wrong about this, but I think the reason ARTCC drops you off flight following when you enter an active MOA is because it's not their airspace anymore. There is a military controller in charge of deconfliction. The frequencies/info are on VFR sectionals. They're happily surprised when GA aircraft talk to them as it makes their job a lot easier and you don't disrupt any training going on. Plus, they'll hand you back to center when you exit the MOA.

You can call the base ops guys before you fly to see what their flying schedule is that day as well.
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  #16  
Old 07-01-2016, 05:59 AM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHRoss3 View Post
Yes, flying VFR through a MOA is perfectly legal...but not smart. While in a military aircraft I've been advised of VFR traffic numerous times and had to stop training to see and avoid the traffic. When in the middle of a 8 - 10k ft vertical maneuver with your T-38 wingman in extended trail where your airspeed goes from 450 KIAS to 200KIAS throughout the maneuver, you can't stop on a dime. I've had several near misses with GA traffic in MOAs including twice with the same Mooney that blasted through the heart of the Columbus AFB MOAs on different days. As Forest Gump said, Stupid is what Stupid Does.

Fly Safe! Don't Fly through a HOT MOA without talking to the controlling agency and understanding the activity in the MOA. Sometimes the military aircraft is droning at a set altitude block which you can easily avoid. Other times we are using the complete airspace with rapid vertical changes in simulated combat. That's why the controlling agency cannot provide flight following and advisories because they cannot predict the military aircraft's flight path.

Big Sky theory works most of the time but why risk your life and others.
Cheers,
George

I second what George is stating. Having a son that did his UPT at Sheppard and his B-Class at Luke, I've learned you really don't want to be in the MOAs that are used for primary training. Remember what it was like on your first cross flight. (i.e. barely keeping up with everything happening) Now imagine you're in a T-38 or F-16. These pilots have their hands full and are practicing newly learned maneuvers. Do you really want to trust them to see you before it's too late?

The good news is that most of the training bases (I know that Sheppard does this) have excellent documents explaining their MOAs, how to flight plan around them, and history of the any incidents that have occurred between GA and Military. I know they were very helpful to me in determining appropriate risk management.
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  #17  
Old 07-01-2016, 06:27 AM
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TomVal TomVal is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
I second what George is stating. Having a son that did his UPT at Sheppard and his B-Class at Luke, I've learned you really don't want to be in the MOAs that are used for primary training. Remember what it was like on your first cross flight. (i.e. barely keeping up with everything happening) Now imagine you're in a T-38 or F-16. These pilots have their hands full and are practicing newly learned maneuvers. Do you really want to trust them to see you before it's too late?

The good news is that most of the training bases (I know that Sheppard does this) have excellent documents explaining their MOAs, how to flight plan around them, and history of the any incidents that have occurred between GA and Military. I know they were very helpful to me in determining appropriate risk management.
Take a look at the youtube video on post #6 on this thread.
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  #18  
Old 07-01-2016, 09:46 AM
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flightlogic flightlogic is offline
 
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My experience around Boise is not positive. I tried calling the controller for the MOA... since I was close to the boundary. They declined to assist.
Another flight south of Mt. Home, I had an F16 join my wing. I was outside the restricted box... but apparently their maps are not as detailed as ours.
West of Prescott we (decades of GA flights) transit the Gladden MOA to get to California. Controllers are getting better at telling you when they see activity. Most is 20K feet or so, but as Bob mentioned, they do aggressive vertical at times. I suspect for that particular MOA, their instructors keep them fairly high. Since they are not in a combat zone, it would be nice if their transponders showed up on my ADS-B. They aren't on a secret mission or anything... just young kids learning to fly. My general impression out west is that controllers are stepping up to safety though. I have had detailed precip reports from their radar in recent times as well as good MOA reports. Kudos to the ATC guys.
(from a FLIB in an RV9A)
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2016, 09:32 AM
DennisRhodes DennisRhodes is offline
 
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Location: Taylorsville, Ga
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Looking at the : You can get MOA status here:
https://sua.faa.gov

Are all the MOAs that are shown in red HOT ? And do you assume all the others are not ? Maybe I didn't spent enough time looking around but didn't find info such as effective times and etc. Arrow over the MOA and it looks like just generic info on the site base. ??
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2016, 11:00 AM
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erich weaver erich weaver is offline
 
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Interesting to hear the efferent experiences in MOAs. For the MOA I fly over most frequently (Lemoore) flight following routinely hands me off to their controller and then I get handed right back upon exit. No fuss no muss.

Erich
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