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View Poll Results: On your current airplane, how reliable is/was your alternator
I have used an automotive alternator and had no failures in its first 250 hours. 124 25.83%
I have used an automotive alternator that failed within the first 250 hours. 28 5.83%
I have used a Plane Power alternator and had no failures in its first 250 hours. 145 30.21%
I have used a Plane Power alternator that failed within the first 250 hours. 62 12.92%
I have used a B&C alternator and had no failures in its first 250 hours. 118 24.58%
I have used a B&C that failed within the first 250 hours. 3 0.63%
Voters: 480. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 06-13-2016, 07:52 PM
jj13 jj13 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dunwoody GA (KLZU)
Posts: 59
Default if you have 2, do they both need to be B&Cs

I have all glass and fly a lot of IMC. I have 2 alternators one a vacuum pump accessory pad mounted B&C, the other a $100 AutoZone. If the auto one fails I still can complete my flight. Once I'm back home I can exchange it for free, so just some labor on my part which is also free. I did put a larger pulley (4") on my 14824 AutoZone so we'll see if that makes it last longer, I would think it would.
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  #32  
Old 06-14-2016, 06:01 AM
Dean Pichon Dean Pichon is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 532
Default

I have a B&C alternator with a blast tube installed in my -4. 15 years and 770hrs with no failures.

I have yet to touch it. At annual I look at it, wiggle the connector to confirm security and call it done. This thread has inspired me to check to see if I should be doing more proactive maintenance.
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  #33  
Old 06-14-2016, 09:16 AM
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Jim P Jim P is offline
 
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Posts: 934
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B&C 60A at 530 hrs and still going strong. Had an external voltage regulator need tweaking at about 400 hrs, but the alternator has been bullet-proof.
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  #34  
Old 06-14-2016, 09:24 AM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,788
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I had an interesting conversation this morning with Hartzell/Plane Power. A quick summary:

They have no insight whatsoever in regards to the design, other than is starts out as a Nippondenso alternator. The manufacturing rights were purchased from the previous developer, Plane Power. +

The product is not even produced by Hartzell in house. It is produced by a vendor and shipped to Hartzell essentially complete.

There are no service and repair procedures, nor parts. A warranty is simply a new unit.

They are totally unaware of field failure data.

They have no plans to investigate the high failure rate of this product.

I have a 60 amp version PP that was provided with my RV-10 kit. It now has over 500 trouble free hours. I am leaning heavily towards a proactive replacement with the B&C, although it will require installing a voltage regulator.
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RV-10 - 1125 hrs
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Last edited by Bill.Peyton : 06-14-2016 at 09:26 AM.
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  #35  
Old 06-14-2016, 09:27 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Stockton, California
Posts: 296
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One important factor, IMO, is the pulley ratio. Alternator output "plateaus" after about 6000 RPM and I've seen plenty of automotive installations in aircraft that use the auto OEM pulley. When checking drive ratio using the pitch diameters of the Starter Ring Gear, many were running their Alternators above 9000 RPM at cruise.

Another, less obvious consideration is the fact that Auto Alternators are designed for high altitude operation.

FWIW

mjb
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  #36  
Old 06-14-2016, 09:46 AM
rvsxer rvsxer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Inver Grove Hgts, MN
Posts: 329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Bourget View Post
One important factor, IMO, is the pulley ratio. Alternator output "plateaus" after about 6000 RPM and I've seen plenty of automotive installations in aircraft that use the auto OEM pulley. When checking drive ratio using the pitch diameters of the Starter Ring Gear, many were running their Alternators above 9000 RPM at cruise.

Another, less obvious consideration is the fact that Auto Alternators are designed for high altitude operation.

FWIW

mjb
Do you mean to say automotive alternators are "not" designed for high altitude operation? What would one do to an alternator for "high altitude" operation? Magnetos are pressurized to preclude flashover but I've never heard of any changes to alternators for operation at altitude.
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  #37  
Old 06-14-2016, 09:52 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill.Peyton View Post
I had an interesting conversation this morning with Hartzell/Plane Power. A quick summary:

They have no insight whatsoever in regards to the design, other than is starts out as a Nippondenso alternator. The manufacturing rights were purchased from the previous developer, Plane Power. +

The product is not even produced by Hartzell in house. It is produced by a vendor and shipped to Hartzell essentially complete.

There are no service and repair procedures, nor parts. A warranty is simply a new unit.

They are totally unaware of field failure data.

They have no plans to investigate the high failure rate of this product.

I have a 60 amp version PP that was provided with my RV-10 kit. It now has over 500 trouble free hours. I am leaning heavily towards a proactive replacement with the B&C, although it will require installing a voltage regulator.
That is a terrible public response from your contact. The whole HET/PP Team is definitely not on the same page. Not what I got yesterday. I am not going to post it, but it was a more positive response at least to addressing the early hour failures. I sent you an email with it.

The value of a larger company like Hartzell is the knowledge of product functional specifications and a quality assurance organization to enforce compliance by the lower tier suppliers. Clearly, their internal support functions and training have failed, and they will have to do some tuning internally, and quickly do something special, to restore/recover their brand image.

~9000 RV owners are watching (along with with ~4000 builders). The poll indicates that PP's product share is #1 in the RV market.
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RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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  #38  
Old 06-14-2016, 10:00 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsxer View Post
Do you mean to say automotive alternators are "not" designed for high altitude operation? What would one do to an alternator for "high altitude" operation? Magnetos are pressurized to preclude flashover but I've never heard of any changes to alternators for operation at altitude.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles...orAircraft.pdf
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RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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  #39  
Old 06-14-2016, 01:15 PM
rvsxer rvsxer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Inver Grove Hgts, MN
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Good article. It also says it is a non-issue.
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Mike Hilger
RV-6 N207AM w/G3X, 1,600 hours +
South St. Paul, MN (KSGS)
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor

We're all here because we're not all there...
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  #40  
Old 06-14-2016, 02:11 PM
boom3's Avatar
boom3 boom3 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sumner, WA
Posts: 722
Default

B & C 60A Alternator
No problems with the alternator in 735 hours although I did have the separate voltage regulator fail at around 375. No problems since it was replaced.

B & C makes nice stuff. I'm guessing you'd find similar results when comparing their starter with other brands as well.
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