FADEC?

[Bluelabel]

I can say from personal experience that EFII and Robert have what I believe to be the best product on the market and certainly the most amazing customer service... The system is easy to install, works as advertised, and while I haven't been flying long enough to give you fuel savings comparisons, others I've spoken to who've been flying longer vouch for it. EFII has several top engine companies supporting them and selling/installing their system with the engine. That says a lot.
My engine runs unbelievably smooth. Tons of power and starts faster than a car. Not having to deal with mixture is a real joy...

[RV10inOz]

Originally Posted by BruceMe

Is there an experimenal fadec out there that folks like/use? I'm not looking for single lever as much as engine management for optimal efficiency and performance and lifetime.

Thoughts?

please no holy wars

After discussing this with some Beech folk the other night in Dallas, I offer the alternate view.

You already have a perfectly good FADEC, one that will last you your entire flying career and you can transport it from plane to plane?..in fact you have to!

All it needs is some proper programming and a good set of data inputs, which if they play up the FADEC can manage with thorough understanding.



+



+

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by RV10inOz

After discussing this with some Beech folk the other night in Dallas, I offer the alternate view.

You already have a perfectly good FADEC, one that will last you your entire flying career and you can transport it from plane to plane?..in fact you have to!

All it needs is some proper programming and a good set of data inputs, which if they play up the FADEC can manage with thorough understanding.



+



+

In the OP's first post- "please no holy wars". This isn't a thread about manual controls vs. FADECS, he's trying to collect information on FADECs. Let's try to remain on topic here if possible.

[BruceMe]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

In the OP's first post- "please no holy wars". This isn't a thread about manual controls vs. FADECS, he's trying to collect information on FADECs. Let's try to remain on topic here if possible.

Yeah... let's nip the whole FADEC or not. I want it... enough said. Now can it find priority above all "get it flying" expenses, that's another issue.

[kbehrent]

The Eagle EMS is easy to install. You use the same wiring for ignition as you would for mags. The throttle body is the same as the SilverHawk, just sensors in it so no change to airbox. All the components are built to be installed on the engine side of the firewall.

I had the system added when I had Aerosport build my engine. It cost me @ $1,500 more than dual electronics & FI or @ $2,000 more than dual slicks/FI.

Well worth it to me and it performs great!

[Bill Palmer]

As someone who has carefully examined the FADEC marketplace for a number of years and decided to go with EFII, I am naturally biased toward EFII, but I?ll try to offer some objective, factual information in the next two posts:

It?s my understanding that Ross (SDS) supplies the ECUs and programmers for the EFII system. Apparently there was a past agreement between SDS and EFII that SDS would not sell to the aircraft market, but this agreement was obviously rescinded by SDS sometime after EFII became successful in the market. That being said, Ross is still supplying ECUs to EFII as well as his own solution, so EFII and SDS appear to me to be in a state of coopetition which is beneficial for both of them as well as for the market.

Coopetition Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coopetition

Most of the EFII component manufacturing as well as the installation of injectors and flywheel magnets happens at the EFII facility at Cable Airport in Upland, CA. They have their own CNC machine shop, welding area and electronics area. One thing is for sure - ALL of EFII?s components are VERY HIGH QUALITY.

EFII?s failure history is ZERO except for a couple of defective MAP sensors which EFII quickly detected and replaced some time ago.

Based on the experiences of myself and many others, EFII?s Customer Service is simply THE BEST.

Several EFII system components such as the spark plugs, coils, injectors, tubing, and MAP sensors are easily obtainable in the field at auto parts stores. All other EFII components are readily available via overnight shipping from EFII. In other words, EFII is arguably easier, quicker, and cheaper to support in the field than typical aviation systems.

EFII has 300+ FADEC (Electronic Fuel Injection plus Electronic Ignition) installations. I don?t think anyone else has numbers anywhere near this. The longest-flying complete FADEC installation has over 1000 trouble-free hours. EFII also has many ignition-only installations flying and many more in-work.

With EFII, you can start with electronic ignition only (single or dual ECU) and then upgrade later to full FADEC including electronic fuel injection (port injection). They give you full credit for your original purchase when you upgrade ? that?s a very nice option.

Because of VALUE (high quality, reasonable price, engineering and racing experience, numbers flying, and great customer service), EFII has become the ?Go-To? FADEC system for Reno, Valdez, and the experimental aircraft community in general.

[Bill Palmer]

My hangar mate has an Eagle EMS system successfully flying in an RV-9A with well over 400 hours, and he likes it a lot. His 9A is smooth-running and fuel efficient as are EFII-equipped airplanes. The Eagle EMS is a very ?custom? system compared to the EFII system; utilizing custom-designed, firewall-forward boxes and harnesses as well as mechanical injection components.

The Eagle EMS is a blend of modern electronic control with aviation mechanical injection. EFII?s electronic port injection system is similar to a modern automobile fuel system design.

EFII has the capability to adjust timing and mixture in-flight; Eagle EMS does not. The EFII system is more adaptable to auto fuel. The EFII system has a typical pressurized fuel rail design and thus requires a fuel return system whereas the Eagle EMS system does not require this. The EFII system is more customizable and, if desired, can flow lots of fuel for high-performance (racing) applications.

The Eagle EMS system utilizes the typical mechanical fuel pump plus an electronic boost pump; the EFII system uses redundant electronic fuel pumps (Walbro).

The Eagle EMS uses aviation spark plugs; the EFII system uses auto plugs.

The Eagle EMS system weighs about 18 pounds. The equivalent EFII system including the fuel return system plumbing weighs about 15 pounds.

Like EFII, everything in the Eagle EMS system appears to be of high quality.

Due to the ?custom? nature of the Eagle EMS system, field support may be a challenge. On the other hand, its high quality has probably resulted in virtually no failures as is the case with the EFII system. Thus, field support may not be much of an issue.

The Eagle EMS is considerably more expensive than the equivalent EFII system.

[RV10inOz]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

In the OP's first post- "please no holy wars". This isn't a thread about manual controls vs. FADECS, he's trying to collect information on FADECs. Let's try to remain on topic here if possible.

Funny, I took that to mean no holy wars between the few manufacturers?..clearly YMMV

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by Bill Palmer

It’s my understanding that Ross (SDS) supplies the ECUs and programmers for the EFII system. Apparently there was a past agreement between SDS and EFII that SDS would not sell to the aircraft market, but this agreement was obviously rescinded by SDS sometime after EFII became successful in the market. That being said, Ross is still supplying ECUs to EFII as well as his own solution, so EFII and SDS appear to me to be in a state of coopetition which is beneficial for both of them as well as for the market.

I'll set some of this conjecture right here. Racetech/SDS has been selling EFI/EI systems for aviation longer than anyone else in the business (22 years). We have been selling continuously since 1995 to the aviation market, both for auto conversions and traditional aircraft engines, directly to customers and to other dealers and partners- for both civilian and military applications. Our first system for Lycoming engines was delivered in 1997. We'd already delivered over 200 systems for aviation and over 5500 automotive systems prior to 2004. In 1997, we saw many new competitors coming into the shrinking automotive EFI market and figured it was wise to diversify into other markets such as marine and aviation. I started building the RV6A as a company test bed/ marketing device for our products in 1999 to head the company more in that direction. That move stimulated aviation sales considerably by late 2003.

Robert from Protek/EFII was involved with us back in 2004 as a partner supplying Eggenfellner with ECUs for the Subaru conversions so he already was very familiar with our product prior to starting his work on the Lycoming kits. It was Robert's hard work that started to really crack open the Lycoming market about 5 years ago.
He's been a valuable customer and partner for over a decade but we did not always see eye to eye on the market direction in aviation. In late 2014, we saw a slump in aviation sales on both the civil and military sides which could no longer be ignored if my company was to stay viable so we developed a lot of new products over the next 20 months, answering demands and suggestions from what we were hearing from both existing and potential customers.

As such, we now offer features for aviation which nobody else does, while continuing to supply certain components to our partners and dealers. Our CPI and new EFI features are being well received by many, making those months of hard work pay off and bring our numbers back to where they need to be. I see the cooperation with our partners and dealers as a way to offer broader market choices to clients. We have more products under development for the aviation market and you'll see those released once they have completed the design and testing phases. I'll put our customer service, components, design, features and CNC'd parts up against anyone's in this field.

We now see a growing exodus away from legacy ignition and fuel components such as mags, carbs and mechanical FI for Lycomings, Continentals, Rotax and Jabiru engines. Many people no more want that stuff on their new airplanes any more than they want steam gauges in their panels. The reliability, reduced maintenance and efficiency gains are proven, especially with LOP operation.

As I've said before, our products are not right for every person or every mission. Evaluate your choices carefully before spending your hard earned money.

[kinger]

Originally Posted by kbehrent

The Eagle EMS is easy to install. You use the same wiring for ignition as you would for mags. The throttle body is the same as the SilverHawk, just sensors in it so no change to airbox. All the components are built to be installed on the engine side of the firewall.

I had the system added when I had Aerosport build my engine. It cost me @ $1,500 more than dual electronics & FI or @ $2,000 more than dual slicks/FI.

Well worth it to me and it performs great!

How long have you been flying with the system and how many hours do you have on it?