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  #1  
Old 06-04-2016, 10:48 AM
John Courte John Courte is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 634
Default KSMO Landing Fees - Check your invoice

This is pretty niche/local, so if you don't ever plan on flying to/from KSMO, (but you should!), please disregard.

KSMO contracts with Vector Airport Systems to handle the landing fee system there. The way it works (as far as I know) is their cameras and other systems catch your tail number when you land, or any time you get a squawk code from the tower for landing and departing. The system assigns you a landing fee based on the weight of your aircraft based on matching its tail number to the gross weight in the TCDS.

You'd think because we have no TCDS for our planes, that they wouldn't be able to bill you because there's no publicly recorded information for your gross weight. You'd be wrong. They bill you. They just bill you based on a WAG for what someone thinks a typical piston single weighs, in my case 2500 lbs.

So when I called them to find out exactly how they were billing my landing fees, I was able to give them the proper gross weight of 1190 lbs, which reduced my account balance and future fees considerably. As onerous, burdensome, and annoying as landing fees at SMO are, I'm glad to finally be paying what I should be instead of extra. No need for the city to get a dime more than they absolutely should from a policy designed to squeeze aviation out of one of the coolest airports in the country.

Anyway, hope this helps someone.
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2016, 10:55 AM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
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Location: Southern California
Posts: 882
Default Gross Weight?

What are you flying that has an 1190 lbs Gross weight?

Skylor
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2016, 02:01 PM
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TCONROY TCONROY is offline
 
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It isn't quite that sophisticated ; the tower just sends Vector a list of daily arrivals and departures. I have flown into SMO many times in several corp jets and find it a great little airport and very convenient when needing to go into downtown L.A. It's too bad the city hates it so much.
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  #4  
Old 06-05-2016, 03:28 PM
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koupster koupster is offline
 
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Location: SLC, UT (KBTF)
Posts: 240
Default Landing fees in general

I've returned to the GA side of aviation fairly recently.

I don't seem to be able to find any online resource for fees such as landing, handling, security, terminal, overnight, or ramp fees. Searched the websites of both FBO's at SMO and found nothing. The AirNav.com FBO Comments had some references to fees, and the AirNav.com SMO Airport Operations section does state, "Landing fee: yes", but that entry doesn't seem to be a standard part of the Airport Operations section for other airports.

Does anyone have a resource other than a phone call for researching these fees in advance? Thanks.

Cheers, David
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2016, 07:26 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
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Originally Posted by koupster View Post
I've returned to the GA side of aviation fairly recently.

I don't seem to be able to find any online resource for fees such as landing, handling, security, terminal, overnight, or ramp fees. Searched the websites of both FBO's at SMO and found nothing. The AirNav.com FBO Comments had some references to fees, and the AirNav.com SMO Airport Operations section does state, "Landing fee: yes", but that entry doesn't seem to be a standard part of the Airport Operations section for other airports.

Does anyone have a resource other than a phone call for researching these fees in advance? Thanks.

Cheers, David
KBTF RV-6A
First hit for a Google of "Santa Monica Landing Fees"

http://www.smgov.net/Departments/Air...e_Program.aspx

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  #6  
Old 06-05-2016, 08:03 PM
bjohnson1234 bjohnson1234 is offline
 
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I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe they can legally bill you under the current rules. It specifically says "maximum certificated gross landing weight". I also received an invoice for a recent trip and I have sent a dispute. The city would use this kind of technicality against you given the chance, so I don't see why I should give them any leeway at all.
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:35 PM
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TCONROY TCONROY is offline
 
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You can choose not to pay the fee but eventually they will add your n-number to the black list and will not permit you to land there (unless you are inbound with an Emergency). I know of a few operators that have violated the noise sensors at SMO 3 times and are now black listed.
I am not a lawyer either but I believe the owner (city, county, state, port authority, etc.) has every right to ban you from their airport if you don't play by their rules.
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  #8  
Old 06-05-2016, 08:53 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bjohnson1234 View Post
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe they can legally bill you under the current rules. It specifically says "maximum certificated gross landing weight". I also received an invoice for a recent trip and I have sent a dispute. The city would use this kind of technicality against you given the chance, so I don't see why I should give them any leeway at all.
Knowing Santa Monica and their dislike for planes -

If pilots dispute the "maximum certificated gross landing weight" bit they will solve the problem by simply saying no Experimental planes.
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  #9  
Old 06-06-2016, 01:05 PM
bjohnson1234 bjohnson1234 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
Knowing Santa Monica and their dislike for planes -

If pilots dispute the "maximum certificated gross landing weight" bit they will solve the problem by simply saying no Experimental planes.
Well, I hope that isn't the case. I certainly wouldn't want to create a new problem. They could solve the issue by having a fee per-seat or something like that, but the currently passed resolution doesn't provide for any alternatives to "certificated gross landing weight" afaik
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:33 PM
jnmeade jnmeade is offline
 
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Location: Iowa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnson1234 View Post
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe they can legally bill you under the current rules. It specifically says "maximum certificated gross landing weight". I also received an invoice for a recent trip and I have sent a dispute. The city would use this kind of technicality against you given the chance, so I don't see why I should give them any leeway at all.
I don't understand. What technicality is being pointed out?
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