What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

N313GT Phase 1 Update

YellowJacket RV9

Well Known Member
Patron
I have enjoyed and found other threads on Phase 1 experiences useful, and thought I would add my own. Right now I am at slightly over 10 hours, and have mainly been running high power settings to break in my new ECI cylinders. Have not yet experimented with higher altitudes or a great deal of slow flight.

-I have a small oil leak from somewhere on the front portion of the engine. The oil lands on the lower cowl right above and forward of the air intake. I slightly snugged up on case bolt there, but have not been able to stop or track down the source yet. Maybe 4-5 drops per flight.

-As noted in another thread, my electric Facet boost pump had stopped pumping, although fuel flowed through it fine. Removing from airplane and shaking it seemed to fix it. I think a spec of dirt got in it, and have ordered an inline filter to install before it and the Flo-Scan.

-Right side CHT's were slightly high. I have since moved the upper inlet ramp forward a few inches and re-glassed. This brought #1 way down. #3 is still slightly hotter, and hovers around 406* at 75% power at 70* OAT. I have done a lot of work baffle sealing, so will probably not stress over it too much until the cylinders have had time to break in. I know some people have had to re-jet, but this carb has been flying fine for 760 hours, and all my other temps are okay (well under 400). I am pretty sure further break-in will help even more, as well gear leg fairings and wheel pants.

-My oil temp is on the low side, and I have taped over the upper portion of the oil cooler inlet, which has helped.

-Oil consumption is reasonable considering break in, I think. I have added 1 qt in 10 hours.

-When I installed my fuel level senders, I forgot to add the bend that keeps them from pivoting. Neither of them were reading correctly. I have since removed and fixed the right sender, and will do the left next time I get the fuel level low enough to drain out. I still need to calibrate them as well. In the meantime, I keep the tanks fairly full, and find that my flo-scan has been fairly accurate.

-My passenger side step is already showing a crack at the typical location. :mad:

As for flying, she flies beautifully and hands-off. I had second-guessed the manual elevator trim, but I find it very intuitive and in a natural location where my right had falls anyways.

Full flap stall is 40 knots, straight ahead.

My first few landings were probably my best, as I used 60 knots on final. Letting that slide up to 65 knots gave me a lot more float and time to botch the perfect landing. I think I have let the airspeed creep up as the difference in sink rate between 60 and 65 knots is pretty noticeable, but I have to remind myself that even at 60 knots there is plenty of speed left to arrest the descent. I am renewing my focus on nailing that 60 knot airspeed over the fence. If I find myself a bit high, a quick slip works really well for getting down without speeding up. Either way the plane is very forgiving and stable once in ground-effect, and none of my landings have been hard or bounced. I have landed in up to 8 knots crosswind without much issue at all. Plenty of rudder authority.

The airplane loves to climb, and if I don't pay attention, it will. I have to get used to the slightly nose-down attitude of level flight. It will easily climb in a steep turn if I'm not careful, as well. Much more pitch sensitive than I am used to. I had to get used to planning my descents and slowing down farther in advance. But it isn't really that hard. My plane is proof that 150hp and a fixed pitch prop will, in fact, fly, and slow down.

Have not done much speed testing. I have no gear fairings or wheel pants. At about 3000' DA and 75% power I am showing about 136 KTAS. This is a 150HP and Sensenich fixed pitch prop. I don't really know how this compares to others or what to expect at higher altitudes. It's a plane that I built in my garage and goes over 150 mph. I'm happy. I can tinker later.

I have been making an effort to fly with increasingly different CG profiles, but have not yet worked up to anything near max weight.

Hoping to get a few more hours in this week and do some power-on stalls and work on some short-field landing technique, as well as some more crosswind practice.

Chris
 
Great stuff, Chris. It's wondeful for everyone to build up an archive of these Phase 1 experiences. Sorry about the cracked step...that truly sucks to have it happen that early.

Your oil consumption is nice and low. Lots of folks have fully broken-in engines that consume more than that. I consider mine fully broken in at 45 hours, with consumption at about 1 quart per 12-13 hours. Keep those power settings high!

Like you, I find the low-60s KIAS over-the-fence speed to be ideal (at solo weight), and maybe 65-67 for medium crosswinds or gusts. I haven't really experimented with slips, but I need to.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the speed once all fairings/pants are in place and you're at full power at 8000' DA. It's fun to run it flat out a few times to see what the number is, but what's really nice is when you find the sweet spot of reasonable economy and decent speed in "performance cruise."

Keep the reports coming! :)
 
Last edited:
Nice report Chris. Deeper into Phase 1 after all glitches are gone try to bring her on final at 55 knots. It's a bit challenging but with a little breeze on the nose you could stop on the numbers.
 
Full flap stall is 40 knots, straight ahead.

My first few landings were probably my best, as I used 60 knots on final. Letting that slide up to 65 knots gave me a lot more float and time to botch the perfect landing. I think I have let the airspeed creep up as the difference in sink rate between 60 and 65 knots is pretty noticeable, but I have to remind myself that even at 60 knots there is plenty of speed left to arrest the descent. I am renewing my focus on nailing that 60 knot airspeed over the fence.

Like you, I find the low-60s KIAS over-the-fence speed to be ideal (at solo weight), and maybe 65-67 for medium crosswinds or gusts. I haven't really experimented with slips, but I need to.

Nice reports. Congrats on the progress!

Like Vlad suggests, if you're having any trouble with the landings--and after you've had time to incrementally work down later in Phase 1--you might see if you can get down between 1.3 and 1.4 Vso. For me that's between 52-56 KIAS at solo weight. I aim for 55 and accept anything down to 52 if relatively gust free. Slowing down from the original 60-65 remarkably improved my landings. Yes, the power off sink at that speed is noticeably higher, but there's still plenty of elevator authority to arrest the descent.

Good luck on the continued Phase 1.
 
Last edited:
Nice airplane

Nice writeup and approach to the test period, Chris. I have flown a number of 9's, including Phase I's and 52-55 is the sweet spot for landings in that airplane. I know it seems slow, but it's a real pussy cat, probably the best of the RV's Van's team has designed.
My opinion is that if if were certified it would be the next generation's C-150 and do the same for aviation.

Vic
 
Thank you guys. I will try working my way down on the landing speeds. I have the luxury of a long runway here and I am going to start setting goals about landing distances. I want to be able to comfortably fly into Cedar Key with the wife after Phase 1!

This thing is a blast to fly, especially in smooth air in the mornings. I still have to pinch myself.

Chris
 
OK, you guys have talked me into it! I'll try high 50s and work my way down bit by bit. :D Still lots of cushion with a Vso of 39, but it does seem slooooooowww, like walking speed slow, after tearing 160 kt holes in the sky.

That must be how Vlad manages to land on tiny sand bars in the Yukon, or wherever. :):)
 
Last edited:
OK, you guys have talked me into it! I'll try high 50s and work my way down bit by bit. :D Still lots of cushion with a Vso of 39, but it does seem slooooooowww, like walking speed slow, after tearing 160 kt holes in the sky.

That must be how Vlad manages to land on tiny sand bars in the Yukon, or wherever. :):)

Don't overdo it Doug. Remember you won't see much over the nose. The runway may raise and slap you :D
 
Good job Chris. Seems like you are doing a good job of working through the small things.
I know landing wasn't the major point of the post but one thing you probably already know is that the float is very exaggerated by idle speed. Once you are comfortable with the cylinders being broke in make sure to keep the idle low. Even so low it almost stalls while on the ground. While flying and with the prop windmilling it will be a much higher idle speed. I have seen high idle RV-9's that can hardly land in 3000'
 
Good job Chris. Seems like you are doing a good job of working through the small things.
I know landing wasn't the major point of the post but one thing you probably already know is that the float is very exaggerated by idle speed. Once you are comfortable with the cylinders being broke in make sure to keep the idle low. Even so low it almost stalls while on the ground. While flying and with the prop windmilling it will be a much higher idle speed. I have seen high idle RV-9's that can hardly land in 3000'
^Agreed. I bumped my idle up by maybe a quarter turn (rpm went from 650 or so to 700) trying for a little more smoothness. After the first landing, I put it back. Even with the windmilling on final it feels a little lumpy, but still responds instantly to throttle input.
 
Good post, Chris! I found myself smiling the further I read thru your findings .... My reactions were - and in some cases, still are - identical. I thoroughly identify with the Nine's desire to climb and the importance of sight picture over the cowl. Before my Nine I had >350hrs in C172s, which has a flat top cowl. For at least a year of flying the Nine, I regularly trimmed for cruise only to find myself climbing at 400-500 rpm just a few minutes later. It took a long time to acclimate to my James cowl and its downward sloping snout .... Not to mention the climb rate of an RV. :D
 
Good post, Chris! I found myself smiling the further I read thru your findings .... My reactions were - and in some cases, still are - identical. I thoroughly identify with the Nine's desire to climb and the importance of sight picture over the cowl. Before my Nine I had >350hrs in C172s, which has a flat top cowl. For at least a year of flying the Nine, I regularly trimmed for cruise only to find myself climbing at 400-500 rpm just a few minutes later. It took a long time to acclimate to my James cowl and its downward sloping snout .... Not to mention the climb rate of an RV. :D

Same here, almost exactly, just a little more time in the 172. I still get surprised by the desire to climb aggressively even in a high bank angle, and the sight picture over the cowl took some getting used to.
 
Thanks all. My idle is around 630-650 right now. It doesn't float much when I am on speed. When I get it right, I can stop well before my first turnoff. At some point I will experiment with even lower idle though - especially if I move to a pmag at some point.

I got a tip about my oil leak also possibly coming from my breather tube, so I may make an extension for it and see what happens to the leak. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Chris
 
34 hours down now, and still grinning, even more so after blowing by a 172 yesterday like he was standing still. And I was climbing.

I have been working on my timing with respect to getting slowed down, and experimenting with different ways to fly the pattern. Also did a no-flap landing yesterday. Practicing more stalls which are non-eventful but I still need more work flying right above stall speed.

I have my main gear fairings and intersection fairings attached, and plan to do the nose gear leg fairing this week. Definitely a bit faster now.

I broke down and bought a used Lightspeed Zulu. Never going back.

I have also semi-permanently installed the Stratux box which is now hardwired to my GRT Sport. I love being able to pull up METARs, especially since our ASOS transmitter at ZPH has been down for weeks. I also bought an AP510 APRS transmitter that I finally got setup last night and will test next time I fly. Yes, I have a license (AE4KN).

I had slightly high CHT's on #3, which had been reduced by triple-checking all my baffle seals, as well as adding the gear fairings, however #3 was still just barely below 400* at 75% cruise (although it is quite hot out). A few days ago I finally bit the bullet and fabricated a channel into the rear of the #3 baffle that directs some air under the cylinder. Noticed immediate improvement now with #3 well under 390* even with higher OATs yesterday. I still think I can do better though because #1 is around 350-360*. I think adding to the air dam or at least some speed tape on #1 can help even out the temps. The only challenge is that #1 tends to get hotter faster on climb out, so I want to keep it cool enough in climb as well.


Other squawks: My old Dynon D10 backup EFIS has the leans, and indicates a slight left bank while straight and level. If it's a hardware issue my only option is to upgrade to a D10A I guess. But since I'm not flying IMC I'm not immediately concerned with a backup EFIS. Besides, the airspeed and altitude on it work fine.

Baffle cracks: Sure enough, the baffle is cracking along the outside left rear corner at the oil cooler mount. Tomorrow I am going to fabricate a doubler angle that will be well secured, with the goal of lasting until I order some new parts and make a beefier setup. Should've listened to those before me...

Everything else is going well, and I am experimenting with leaning technique, and will start a separate post with some of those questions.

Chris
 
Wow, speedy progress through Phase 1! Poor Cessna 172 didn't see it coming. :)

Sorry to hear about your baffle crack. Did it occur at the top of the intersection? When you redo the baffle, consider fitting some sort of brace to reduce the flexing. Lots of variations out there, but I bolted a piece of flat stock directly from the baffle (with a D-shaped gusset) to the cylinder head fins of #4. It's remarkable how it stiffens things up.

 
this simple and compact alum oil cooler brace has been successful for 450 hr. no signs of distress. I think the key is attaching to the oil cooler bolt. this is on the old style baffle kit. no other added pieces to baffle kit other than the brace.

r2V6Rkr1jl9YwwICrRDvxMkwn8KESVUJhY_MSHtunCO3YqsbKngAUkBQljUl4JE-cq-sd2BzHbE=w1152-h864-rw-no
 
Last edited:
Wow, speedy progress through Phase 1! Poor Cessna 172 didn't see it coming. :)

Sorry to hear about your baffle crack. Did it occur at the top of the intersection? When you redo the baffle, consider fitting some sort of brace to reduce the flexing. Lots of variations out there, but I bolted a piece of flat stock directly from the baffle (with a D-shaped gusset) to the cylinder head fins of #4. It's remarkable how it stiffens things up.

Actually, my crack is on the outside of the baffle at the rear corner. I have seen others with cracks here as well, although I do plan to brace the entire area and hopefully avoid any more.

154dldv.jpg


Chris
 
The reason that the crack is where it is, is because that is where the baffle is flexing with the weight and vibration of the oil cooler. If you brace the inner side of the oil cooler to something, then that vertex of the baffles won't flex and crack.

I added this brace between the oil cooler and cylinder head and it makes it extremely stiff. No cracks (yet).

IMG_3202-M.jpg


Stainless steel tubing, flatten the ends, drill a hole at each end and then use a longer bolt on the rocker cover. The hard part is getting the angles of the bends on the tubing correct.

I also reinforced the baffle with some angle.

IMG_3261-M.jpg
 
The reason that the crack is where it is, is because that is where the baffle is flexing with the weight and vibration of the oil cooler. If you brace the inner side of the oil cooler to something, then that vertex of the baffles won't flex and crack.

I added this brace between the oil cooler and cylinder head and it makes it extremely stiff. No cracks (yet).

Makes sense. I will incorporate this idea for sure; thanks!

Chris
 
you might try stop drilling the crack and adding the brace and then keeping an eye on it.
 
The reason that the crack is where it is, is because that is where the baffle is flexing with the weight and vibration of the oil cooler. If you brace the inner side of the oil cooler to something, then that vertex of the baffles won't flex and crack.

I added this brace between the oil cooler and cylinder head and it makes it extremely stiff. No cracks (yet).

IMG_3202-M.jpg


Stainless steel tubing, flatten the ends, drill a hole at each end and then use a longer bolt on the rocker cover. The hard part is getting the angles of the bends on the tubing correct.

I also reinforced the baffle with some angle.

IMG_3261-M.jpg

Shame on me - I copied this design. :D 1. larger angle on the corner, 2. tied the outer stiffener to the top left hole in the head, 3. inside brace back to the head at the back of the VC screw.

The trick to the inner short brace fab (for me) was to take a strip of aluminum, bend the ends for a PERFECT fit to the angles, drill the holes, then transfer the holes to a bench jig of steel (two pieces of 1.5" angle iron at 90 deg), then match drill the second hole with that clamped together on the bench. Angles and holes matched perfectly.

I made mine from a solid bar as the tubing just looked too big. Heated with a torch and beat the ends flat. YMMV
Brace%2Bto%2Bhead.JPG
 
Last edited:
Here's Some Easy Numbers for the "9"

90 Kts - Pattern Entry/Deploy Approach Flaps
80 Kts - Downwind (full flaps before base turn)
70 Kts - Rolling into Base
60 Kts - Final

For Short Field - 55Kts (or less)

Maintain approach attitude until 10 feet off the deck, then level off. One to two feet above the deck, pull back gently like you're trying to keep it off the ground. Nose should never touch until you run out of elevator.

Keep your pattern tight and speeds stable.

For precision instrument approaches, you'll need to be at 90Kts or below before GS intercept - otherwise you can't get it to slowed down enough to deploy flaps.

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
90 Kts - Pattern Entry/Deploy Approach Flaps
80 Kts - Downwind (full flaps before base turn)
70 Kts - Rolling into Base
60 Kts - Final

For Short Field - 55Kts (or less)

Maintain approach attitude until 10 feet off the deck, then level off. One to two feet above the deck, pull back gently like you're trying to keep it off the ground. Nose should never touch until you run out of elevator.

Keep your pattern tight and speeds stable.

For precision instrument approaches, you'll need to be at 90Kts or below before GS intercept - otherwise you can't get it to slowed down enough to deploy flaps.

Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

These are pretty much exactly the numbers I've been using. Your technique is exactly what I practiced with Jan Bussell and I have been amazed at how easy it is to look good landing this thing.

Chris
 
Back
Top