Can I build an RV-3B?

[mosquito]

Originally Posted by KJP

WNC is Western NC. I've been in EAA for about 25 years. RVs are not common here.

Hi Keith,

Welcome to VAF! Not sure where in WNC you are, but in the Hendersonville area I know of a 4, 7a, 8, 9a, and 10 under construction, with a 6, 6a, 7a and two 8s flying out of our airport, with more up at Asheville. Not that I'm counting

-jon

[KatieB]

A huge public congratulations to you, Tony!

I am a first time builder. Early on, some very talented friends who've built RVs taught me the basics of building aluminum airplanes. Other than that, this site has been my primary source of guidance. Sometimes it helps to see a picture of what the plans are alluding to, and that's where this site and all the online builder logs are invaluable. If you enjoy building jigs, fabricating parts, planning ahead, and problem solving, you will like building a 3. If not, build a Panther. My husband is finishing up his Panther and the kit quality is phenomenal. It also has a much bigger cockpit than the 3. Welcome to the club!

[KJP]

Originally Posted by KatieB

A huge public congratulations to you, Tony!

...If you enjoy building jigs, fabricating parts, planning ahead, and problem solving, you will like building a 3.

Hi Katie, and folks,
I guess I'm like the rest of you; I do like those things, but there's a limit to it at some point. I do pretty well following directions & drawings, but am not as creative as I believe most of y'all are, however I'm particular. Going through some of your (and others') build sites is showing me just how significant the photo's and text are.
I'm still reading, thinking, and deciding. The imput y'all have given herein is helping more than I would have thought. Many times a fellow will do anything if he can get someone to go along along with him.

Thank you very much.
Keith

[tomhanaway]

Keith,
I'm located in WNC although I don't think of it that way. Specifically, Murphy NC. When I first started building I didn't even have a pilots license.
I've built a 10 and now an 8a (currently in phase 1). Plane based in Copperhill, TN.
Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss building.

Tom H.
tomhanaway(at)gmail.com

[KJP]

Hi Folks,
I've read & read on this RV-3 section of VAF about building the -3 and, at this point, conclude that the plans are not very useful, if not misleading.

I'm having problems determining between those posts which describe difficulties that are plan-based and those which are builder based. And to be up-front about it, Mr. Lervold's comments are quite discouraging. I don't want to build another RV model just to gain experience sufficient to build a -3.

I don't expect a -3 project to just "snap together", but I'd like to be able to rely on the drawings to a "good" extent. Within this site I've gone back 10 years, or so, and read about problems, solutions, and etc. and still have not been able to find anything that collates plan/parts discrepancies. Several months ago I looked at Tony's website re building the -3, but now can't get any links to direct me to it… has it been removed? His present site is about the Panther (as far as I can tell).

The closest RV to me is almost 40 miles and I'll be trying to build this thing alone except for some operations where that is not possible. I don't have a community of experienced RV builders nearby. I'm good at searching and sticking with a problem, but don't want to have to call Van's every week and have another part shipped due to their plans/instructions.

Do I believe those who say these things can barely be built, or do I use the factory's provided information and struggle through as best I can? I've found that many links and website references result in "404 site not found" and dead ends; Is there, somewhere, a compilation of sound material?

…and I thought finding reliable Monocoupe drawings and information was hard.

Thanks,
Keith

[David Paule]

The forum talks about the issues with the plans and indeed there are some. For the most part, though, what I've seen is that the plans do in fact show how to build the plane, the manual is more or less helpful in pointing out certain areas where specific comment is needed to explain matters, and in general the dimensions are reliable.

I've not built a previous RV and am able to make my way through this one. As I said, if I can do it, you can too. I'm finding that the process is mostly fun and always makes me think - and those are the reasons I bought my kit. I need to be somewhat cautious because I'm not as good a builder as I wish I were and the RV-3 does have its moments.

One thing I'm learning is that any change has repercussions. A good example is the firewall which I"m building now. Since I added a Lycoming oil filter adapter and a filter and added a governor to the engine (neither are part of the design) I needed a firewall recess. Randy shows where one can go, Van's sells one, so all that is missing are the firewall stiffeners... where do they go? And with the Lycoming instead of the B&C oil filter adapter, which puts the oil filter out of the way, the firewall recess isn't big enough. These complications can't be blamed on the plans; I stepped into them all by myself.

In this case a bit of sheet metal construction and an email to Van's led to answers. And on the way I learned how to work with grade 2 Titanium, which I chose for part of the revised recess assembly.

Frankly, this airplane is easier than a plans-built plane, sans kit, would have been. Is it as easy as the quick-build RV-10 that a neighbor is building? Of course not.

If you haven't gotten at least the plans CD, get them and have a look.

Dave

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by KJP

I do like those things, but there's a limit to it at some point. I do pretty well following directions & drawings, but am not as creative as I believe most of y'all are, however I'm particular. Going through some of your (and others') build sites is showing me just how significant the photo's and text are.

Hi Keith,

I started building my -3B, 3 years ago when I was 20, I had very little metal working skills before starting the kit, and its my first (and probably not the last) build. I really enjoy the -3B, it's a (good) challenge.

Honestly, I think most people are capable enough to build a -3. It really isn't as difficult as it first seems, especially when you make it simple, break the work up into small step-by-step tasks and pace it out, while planning ahead to make sure everything will fit together.

For me the biggest challenge has been having the motivation, time and money to work on it. When I first started, I was buying tools as I needed them which slowed the build down significantly, now that I have the tools, it's just a matter of time and motivation more than anything.

Sure, I sometimes find it difficult to have the patience, and when that happens, I find the best thing is to just put everything away, go relax and think of the end product, maybe read the plans, look at the pictures, just to get a clearer idea for the next day of work, but definitely relax.

I've made plenty of mistakes so far, they're unavoidable on a kit like the -3 where you have to make a lot of the stuff yourself, and you will reorder parts (good thing they're relatively cheap), but getting into the mindset of mistakes being a 'trial run' before making the real thing has helped so much for the motivation. Before I started thinking in that way, a mistake would really hurt the motivation because I felt like it was stopping progress, but now I consider it progress anyway so I feel more motivated to get it right with what I've learnt from the 'trial' run.

When it comes to the plans, they're decent enough, anything missing I've found either online, or thinking ahead, filling in gaps, problem solving.

Like Paul suggests, building to the frame makes it reasonably easy. I've been using a similar/the same method:
1. Drawing out the measurements on the skins (rivet lines and where each hole needs to be, adjusting where necessary for flutes etc., and triple checking everything!)
2. Drilling pilot holes on the skins with a tiny 0.5mm drill bit (leaving holes undrilled that will be done with another part later as per the plans)
3. Putting center-lines or rivet lines on the ribs and spars, lining them up with the skins, clamping them tight and match drilling (starting with a hole at either end to cleco it into place so it almost certainly wont move if a clamp is bumped, then drilling the rest).

Or in the case of stiffeners in the Rudder/Elevators, measuring the skin, extending the center lines past the ends of the stiffeners, pilot drilling the stiffeners first, without drilling the skins, and then aligning & drilling them to the skin.

Doing it that way, there isn't much risk of running a rivet line off and I think it looks pretty neat. And it's not as scary as the method in the plans that suggests 'drilling blind' (I tried that on my first Vertical Stabilizer... learnt my lesson pretty quick)

If you like the idea of a challenge, go for it! I think it's worth it.

[HFS]

Check your PM's

David Howe

[KJP]

Thanks Dave, Cameron, and David.
Apparently VAF is like Supercub.org, a very helpful, positive group with lots of talent.

I just ordered the preview plans & manual. I've considered this airplane several times before but every time I'd focus on the negative aspects of building it and withdraw. This time, after reading your support, thinking of the early builders, and reading through many technical posts, I'm moving ahead. And, I'm interested in the building aspect maybe more than the flying of the airplane. The sheet metal construction on my Javron Super Cub intimidated me until I really got into it, then it became some of the most enjoyable work. To get what I've never had, I'm going to have to do what I've never done.

So, at this point on this day I'm optimistic. Thank you.

Keith

[wilddog]

KJP,
You didnt say you had previously build sheet metal aircraft, great! After you study the plans and manual, I think you will find this is a very doable project.
Bill