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05-16-2016, 10:25 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: St Lucie County, FL
Posts: 353
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C 172, Cherokee 180, RV - X?
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Regards
Luis  --------------------------- RV-10---------------------------  Empennage. Complete Minus fiberglass and attach section. FOR SALE
Build Log N925LC (Reserved) YouTube
Last edited by LuisR : 05-16-2016 at 10:52 AM.
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05-16-2016, 10:35 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 84
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Wonderful video, so much to learn here.
One of the most common fatal accidents in all GA airplanes is the low level unintentional stall spin. This video shows how it can happen and in living color and safely. The instructor who is obviously competent, does this on purpose and still loses 800 ft. In spite of what you are flying, that is a dangerous fall if at pattern altitude.
It is also a great refresher of why we practice stalls.
Spin training, basic aerobatics, and/or upset training are all valuable and everyone in my opinion should spend some time and money doing such training, but no matter how competent, you still have to have some altitude to work with.
It also reminds me that with a low altitude engine failure, straight ahead and pick the best spot is almost always going to have the best outcome. The stall spin seldom has a good ending.
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RV-6A slow build,
serial # 21681. First flight March 1993
Dec 2019 donation paid
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05-16-2016, 12:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 113
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Did you do this in phase 1?
This video is great, thanks for it!
We all know about this right? - The responses lead me to believe that many have never seen this through the windscreen.
I'd be interested to know of those of you who did your phase 1 flight testing - did you spin your airplane? Have you done this maneuver? If it is the single biggest bad-guy, do we practice it?
I feel very comfortable stalling and spinning my RV-8 in all CG and loading configurations as I fully explored this in phase 1.
I still routinely do spins and I do this maneuver too. The RV-6 that I took transition training in really got my attention with this maneuver - my RV-8 is less 'dramatic'. I do it right and left.
All the usual disclaimers - get some training, etc, etc.
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Scott Elhardt
RV-8 N32SE -Finished!
Grove Gear, XIO-360-M1B
Whirlwind RV200
Dual PMags
Pitts S-1S Restoration in process!
Minneapolis, MN
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05-16-2016, 01:41 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selhardt
We all know about this right? - The responses lead me to believe that many have never seen this through the windscreen.
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I haven't. In fact, I've never spun an airplane in my life. I wanted to during training, but it seemed every trainer I flew was placarded against intentional spins.
Quote:
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I'd be interested to know of those of you who did your phase 1 flight testing - did you spin your airplane? Have you done this maneuver? If it is the single biggest bad-guy, do we practice it?
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Although I spent a few years building an RV-7, I ended up buying a flying RV-12 -- so I didn't do the Phase I hours. Not that it would have included spins anyway, but that's beside the point. If I had finished the RV-7, at least part of the Phase I hours and all of the aerobatic testing would have been done by an experienced RV aerobatic pilot with lots of test hours behind him. Even after some aerobatic instruction and RV-7 transition training, I don't know that I would have done it with low hours, a little instruction and a brand new plane. I try not to do things that would make me look really stupid in an NTSB report.
If you've got enough experience to do all of your own test flights -- including the inverted-windshield-full-of-green stuff -- fantastic. It would be stupid for me to do it. I really want to get some upset & acro training one of these days, if I can get to the point where I don't need a cargo chute.
So I think that's why you have a lot of RV guys, even the ones who built their own, who have never seen that particular view.
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Dale
Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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05-16-2016, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Clarksboro, NJ
Posts: 829
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I have seen that view several times - but I was always expecting it. I have to believe my initial reaction would be to pull back if that happened unexpectedly. 
I would think that routine acrobatic flying is the only way to condition to handle this. I don't think a look every 2 years is going to produce enough mussel memory.
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05-16-2016, 02:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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Just curious, how far out was the ball when she broke?
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05-16-2016, 03:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,544
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And Brian wins the award! I was wondering how long it would take before someone mentioned the ball. While it is certainly possible to stall an airplane with the ball in the "middle" it is unlikely that it will enter a spin as fast at this plane did.
And this is a major complaint that I have with our glass panels. The "ball" image in the average EFFIS is basically a waste of time. They are very small, almost an afterthougtht and typically the ball does not move very much, thus we tend not to pay attention to it.
Directly above my EFFIS and just below the glare shield I have an old fashioned ball type bank indicator. These are available from the large aviation parts suppliers, get the biggest one that will fit on your panel. Old school might just save your life.
I have a larger model in my plane, it is very visible, a constant reminder. It is mounted in my line of sight and on base to final turns I check the ball to make sure that I am not cross controlled. It is very easy to get things out of co-ordinated flight when you are at a strange airport, cross wind, crowds, etc. Does AirVenture come to mind...
this was an excellent video, typically on a base to final turn you are going to be around 500' or so agl and based on that video you would not have had time to recover even if you were right on top of it.
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Tom Martin RV1 pilot 4.6hours!
CPL & IFR rated
EVO F1 Rocket 1000 hours,
2010 SARL Rocket 100 race, average speed of 238.6 knots/274.6mph
RV4, RV7, RV10, two HRIIs and five F1 Rockets
RV14 Tail dragger
Fairlea Field
St.Thomas, Ontario Canada, CYQS
fairleafield@gmail.com
Last edited by Tom Martin : 05-16-2016 at 03:15 PM.
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05-16-2016, 03:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Salmon Arm, BC
Posts: 933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
Just curious, how far out was the ball when she broke?
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I went up and did this a couple times in my Rocket this morning, I got an identical result, carried the roll through and pulled out. While I wasn't looking at the ball I expect it was fully in it's corner. It also took a significant pull (# of force) on the stick to keep the nose up, much more than I ever need in any normal maneuvers or mild aerobatics. It is a very strange corner of the flight envelope to be in, at least in my experience.
Thanks to the OP for the video!
__________________
Mark Olson
1987 RV-4 Sold
2003 Super Decathlon - Sold
F1 EVO Rocket, first flight May 31/14
First in line for the Sonex JSX-2T kit
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05-16-2016, 04:51 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,301
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How far the skid ball out is one part of the question. The other part of the question is how much rudder was applied, and how quickly...
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RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2020 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
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05-16-2016, 05:28 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 2,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer
How far the skid ball out is one part of the question. The other part of the question is how much rudder was applied, and how quickly...
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Yes, the rate of yawing is critical. You can fly an airplane cross-controlled at low airspeed (e.g. forward slip) but kicking out to get to coordinated flight too quickly can cause a spin. Try it (at altitude)!
Perhaps what we need is not conventional stall avoidance training, but training in all the clever ways we can enter a stall/spin. I think it would be very illuminating. Then we can avoid those manoeuvers!
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RV-9A complete
Harmon Rocket complete
S-21 wings complete
Victoria, BC (Summer)
Chandler, Az (Winter)
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