Instrument panel critique

[leok]

Thanks Bob, a better answer than my question was looking for!

[N941WR]

Regarding the layout and not the equipment installed, I would dump the key switch. Anything that hangs from that key will block the switches below it.

Also think about your hand movement when flying. In particular, think about where you hand has to go in an emergency and during landing. Put the things you need to manipulate close to the throttle. (Landing and Taxi lights, fuel pump, flaps, & trim)

As Vic mentioned, chair fly the panel and move things around as needed. For example, I moved the interior lights and cabin heat way over on the right side of the panel as the passenger can manipulate those.

All the things I need for landing are arrange left to right, on the left side of the throttle quadrant, with the exception of the flap switch. The flap switch is to the right of the throttle quadrant and can be toggled up and down without removing my hand from the quadrant.

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by leok

Just curious if those regularly flying IFR with both GPS and radio nav capability use one or the other or both?

I have and use both. Many destinations do not have an ILS, so the approach of choice is GPS. At the home airport, the ILS minimums are 120' lower than the LPV's so that's my choice (even if ceilings are high, I need the practice).
I cannot remember the last time I did a non-practice VOR, LOC, SDF. And I don't have an ADF.

[FlyArmy]

Originally Posted by leok

Thanks Jesse for the amazingly quick reply.

Just curious if those regularly flying IFR with both GPS and radio nav capability use one or the other or both?

Only thing I would use radio nav equipment for is shooting an ILS. GPS for everything else. No VOR tracking/VOR approaches for this guy. GPSs will overlay/track VORs more accurately anyway. Always good to have a backup in case GPS goes out, though, I guess. But in my 3K hrs, I've lost GPS one time, and that is when they were doing GPS jamming out by white sands late one night. As for the approach, whichever has the lowest mins. Usually that's the ILS. Operationally, ILS and LPV approaches are about the same, so whichever works best or is available.

[BobTurner]

I hope you noted my caution that, under current rules, you cannot use your airplane for the instrument rating check ride if you go (TSO'd) GPS only. You might want to consider the cost of renting (for both prep and test) a different airplane, vs buying a VOR box for yours.
Edit: I re-read your posts, and realized that you are probably several years away from completion, is this correct? If so, (1) Do not buy avionics now. It's fun to dream, but they change so fast it only makes sense to hold off on avionics until you really are ready to install them - near the end of the build. In this case, I'd suggest you continue to work on yor rating while you build. You'll recover some of tbe cost via a lower insurance premium on the -10. And, with some experience, you'll be in a better position to answer these questions yourself.

[FlyArmy]

Originally Posted by BobTurner

I hope you noted my caution that, under current rules, you cannot use your airplane for the instrument rating check ride if you go (TSO'd) GPS only. You might want to consider the cost of renting (for both prep and test) a different airplane, vs buying a VOR box for yours.
Edit: I re-read your posts, and realized that you are probably several years away from completion, is this correct? If so, (1) Do not buy avionics now. It's fun to dream, but they change so fast it only makes sense to hold off on avionics until you really are ready to install them - near the end of the build. In this case, I'd suggest you continue to work on yor rating while you build. You'll recover some of tbe cost via a lower insurance premium on the -10. And, with some experience, you'll be in a better position to answer these questions yourself.

Why can't he use a GPS only aircraft for an instrument rating? One can satisfy all the non precision/precision requirements with GPS approaches, as well as all other required checkride items, with only a GPS.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...-s-8081-4e.pdf

Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
The instrument rating applicant is required by 14 CFR part 61 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. Its operating limitations must not prohibit the TASKS required on the practical test. Flight instruments are those required for controlling the aircraft without outside references. The required radio equipment is that which is necessary for communications with air traffic control (ATC), and for the performance of two of the following nonprecision approaches: very high frequency omnidirectional range (VOR), nondirectional beacon (NDB), global positioning system (GPS) without vertical guidance, localizer (LOC), localizer-type directional aid (LDA), simplified directional facility (SDF), or area navigation (RNAV) and one precision approach: instrument landing system (ILS), GNSS landing system (GLS), localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) or microwave landing system (MLS). GPS equipment must be instrument flight rules (IFR) certified and contain the current database.
Note: A localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) approach with a decision altitude (DA) greater than 300 feet height above terrain (HAT) may be used as a nonprecision approach; however, due to the precision of its glidepath and localizer-like lateral navigation characteristics, an LPV can be used to demonstrate precision approach proficiency (AOA VI TASK B) if the DA is equal to or less than 300 feet HAT.

Is there another reg that supersedes that?

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by FlyArmy

Why can't he use a GPS only aircraft for an instrument rating? One can satisfy all the non precision/precision requirements with GPS approaches, as well as all other required checkride items, with only a GPS.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...-s-8081-4e.pdf

Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
The instrument rating applicant is required by 14 CFR part 61 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. Its operating limitations must not prohibit the TASKS required on the practical test. Flight instruments are those required for controlling the aircraft without outside references. The required radio equipment is that which is necessary for communications with air traffic control (ATC), and for the performance of two of the following nonprecision approaches: very high frequency omnidirectional range (VOR), nondirectional beacon (NDB), global positioning system (GPS) without vertical guidance, localizer (LOC), localizer-type directional aid (LDA), simplified directional facility (SDF), or area navigation (RNAV) and one precision approach: instrument landing system (ILS), GNSS landing system (GLS), localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) or microwave landing system (MLS). GPS equipment must be instrument flight rules (IFR) certified and contain the current database.
Note: A localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) approach with a decision altitude (DA) greater than 300 feet height above terrain (HAT) may be used as a nonprecision approach; however, due to the precision of its glidepath and localizer-like lateral navigation characteristics, an LPV can be used to demonstrate precision approach proficiency (AOA VI TASK B) if the DA is equal to or less than 300 feet HAT.

Is there another reg that supersedes that?

In the body of the PTS it says ".....two different non precision approaches using DIFFERENT navigational aides..." . The non precision "gps" approach is the same as the non precision "RNAV(GPS)" approach. The reference to RNAV without the "(GPS)" refers to the VOR-DME based system which can provide navigation along arbitrary paths. (and is practically obsolete). So a TSO145/146 GPS gets you only two of the three required different approaches. (The same is true for IPCs, btw.) I could mention that I will give an IPC in an airplane with only GPS. I hand the pilot a portable VOR receiver, turn off the gps (I say it just quit), and have him shoot a VOR approach. If he can do that, he certainly could do it with an installed VOR, so IMHO this meets the spirit if not the letter of the PTS. Not sure designated examiners have that freedom, though.

[leok]

Bob thanks for the guidance/advice. Yes, I am at least two years out on the 10. It could be more. Don't want to put a deadline on it because that tends to take the fun out of the process. I will not be purchasing the big ticket avionics until much closer to the end. Probably about the same time I buy the engine and prop, so at a minimum one year.
I am doing a lot of the non-avionics wiring. I have the VPX installed and am working out the various sub-busses and lighting. I am allocating space for the various items, and thus the interest in the avionics. I am not too worried if Garmin comes out with new versions assuming the allocated space and VPX outputs remain essentially the same.

As for working on my IFR. My current thought is to do that training in the 10 for a few reasons.
1. I am flying only enough to feel comfortable and current as a VFR pilot. I know IFR skills would not be well tended with my current level of flight.
2. I do not have access to an aircraft with glass avionics. I would like to train in what I will be flying. I am in a club with four aircraft, all of which are nice, but 6 packs with 430s.
3. Too many demands on my time and attention to truly focus on mastering the IFR material. I will retire in 4-5 years, hopefully, allowing much greater freedom to concentrate and knock the IFR out.

Might all be lame reasons to others, but they wok for me. One thing I can say for sure is that I want the 10 to be capable of meeting all of the requirements for IFR training, IPC etc..
So once again, thanks everyone for the feedback

[FRKim]

Can someone tell me if a certified GPS is required to be IFR legal in an experimental aircraft? Or just a WASS GPS installed?
thanks

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by FRKim

Can someone tell me if a certified GPS is required to be IFR legal in an experimental aircraft? Or just a WASS GPS installed?
thanks

What do you mean by "legal"? You mean to use the GPS for IFR flight, I presume?

If so, then you need a certified GPS navigator (e.g., GNS430/530, GTN650/750, etc.).