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02-18-2007, 06:31 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyhi
The SportCruiser, the TL range, the Breezer - there are numerous good SLA's in Europe and the US and selling already. They are well priced, good looking all-round performers.
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Can you build them in your garage?
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Rob Davis
Denver, CO
RV-12... here I come!
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02-18-2007, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 37
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Other LSA kits you can build in your garage
The Sportcruiser can be built as a 51% compliant kit according to their website.
http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/ot...cruiserkit.htm
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Joe Moylan
Wings
RV9, tip up
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02-19-2007, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: near San Diego
Posts: 170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmoylan
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I gotta admit, the lines on that design are beautiful, nice aircraft. There may well be some merit to the -12 looking 'dated' already.
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02-19-2007, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 86
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Don't judge the aircraft until:
1) It's in its final configuration (canopy, gear, tail, cowl). After all, it is a proof-of-concept airframe, and
2) You see it in paint. Paint can make an enormous difference on some aircraft. I've always found Van's designs to look better painted (sorry to all of you with polished airframes).
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Gary
RV-6, First flown 1995
Another RV project under VERY serious consideration
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02-19-2007, 12:12 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 37
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Sportcruiser vs RV12
The Sportcruiser does look sharp, but alot of the looks comes from fiberglass, which Van has tried to eliminate on the RV12. Also compare the downward visability from the cockpit. Looks like you see nothing but wing in the Sportcruiser. I like to think of the RV12 as the "A10" of the Vans family. Ugly, slow?,but gets the job done very well.
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Joe Moylan
Wings
RV9, tip up
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02-19-2007, 04:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 497
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Trying to replace my messed up post above?
There are some nice looking aircraft out there. Another consideration is the Lightning... seen here:
http://www.arionaircraft.com/
However, if you look at the cost - They aren't cheap. You are probably looking at $60K+ for the Lightning and even more for the Sportcruiser to outfit and complete. The website you listed states:
FAST-BUILDS STARTING AT $34,500 FOB CZECH...
Does not include: engine, firewall forward package, instruments, interior, fuel system, paint... All kit prices are FOB Czech republic, they do not include shipping, insurance, crating or packing, port and customs fee.
I think that Van's is trying to, and needs to hold costs so that a completed QB RV-12 is at or below $50K. Hopefully a basic VFR/steam gauge/slow build could be completed around $40K. I think that if they do... they will have opened a new market for themselves at the entry level... and open up flying to even more folks.
As noted above - I think that we need to wait until the aircraft has paint and wheel pants before we judge it's looks. I don't think any of the planes look too good until the fiberglass is painted and the remainder is either painted or polished.
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02-20-2007, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32
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RV12 - Trabi ?
Mike,
I flew the very first Sportcruiser demonstrator in the Czech republic last year, it is spacious, has excellent shortfield performance, has a good turn of speed for 100bhp, and has looks to match. The visibility is fine and although not quite as good as my RV8, the canopy works well.
The ergonomics are better than any RV that I have flown, with more comfortable and a better seating position.
As for the Sportcruiser kit, well they are well priced and include that great little Rotax 912S engine, and by all accounts a very quick and easy build.
The RV12 will no doubt perform satisfactorily, but ironically looks more like one of the "trabi's'" (Trabants) or Wartburgs from the old East Germany, than a modern American classic, whilst the SC which is built in Eastern Europe looks a class act.
Maybe some paint will help the 12 ?
Nic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mike Armstrong
I gotta admit, the lines on that design are beautiful, nice aircraft. There may well be some merit to the -12 looking 'dated' already.
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02-23-2007, 07:01 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kingwood
Posts: 80
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But can you take it home?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyhi
Mike,
I flew the very first Sportcruiser demonstrator in the Czech republic last year, it is spacious, has excellent shortfield performance, has a good turn of speed for 100bhp, and has looks to match. The visibility is fine and although not quite as good as my RV8, the canopy works well.
The ergonomics are better than any RV that I have flown, with more comfortable and a better seating position.
As for the Sportcruiser kit, well they are well priced and include that great little Rotax 912S engine, and by all accounts a very quick and easy build.
The RV12 will no doubt perform satisfactorily, but ironically looks more like one of the "trabi's'" (Trabants) or Wartburgs from the old East Germany, than a modern American classic, whilst the SC which is built in Eastern Europe looks a class act.
Maybe some paint will help the 12 ?
Nic
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Paint, appearance, and nicities aside, I want to TAKE IT HOME. I want the advantages and challenges that the wing feature will afford me. I want an all metal aircraft that has bookoos (Tremendous) support here in the good ole US of A. None of that with the S/C.
Mcstealth
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02-23-2007, 11:01 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St Louis, Mo
Posts: 178
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcsteatlh
Paint, appearance, and nicities aside, I want to TAKE IT HOME. I want the advantages and challenges that the wing feature will afford me. I want an all metal aircraft that has bookoos (Tremendous) support here in the good ole US of A. None of that with the S/C.
Mcstealth
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McS -
The Lightning can readily be differentiated with the S/C. It is a low wing w/ a jabu 3300 [as expressed earlier an engine that will accommodate fuel prices like Europe's more easily], LSA compliant [or regular experimental if you'd rather] and build in TN, USA and [even has a factory quick-build option] alternative:
current cost for kit is $33,900
There is a Lightning forum:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=64
This is a pretty active forum and quite a few are being built and flown [it'd be interesting to see how many RVs were built in the first year v. the no. of Lightnings].
and the website sited before:
http://www.arionaircraft.com/
a short description and pilot?s impression:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=12480
It is most similar to the -9A in performance and is a modular composite design [a major modification of the Esqual [there is a recent thread describing the differences between the two in Matronics]]. If you go to their factory in Tn you can have something ready to paint in a week... After painting [they will job it out there or you can trailer it back with you and do it at home] they say you can spend another week at their shop and have it ready to fly. Their web site has all the details.
Aircraft selection is a multi-variable equation with each input of differing importance to each person. I just didn't want you to dismiss the Lightning if being a USA product and builder support were significant elements in your decision process because it qualifies in those inputs.
John
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02-23-2007, 01:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 155
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I hope you guys are equally evangelical about RV's on those other forums...
__________________
Rob Davis
Denver, CO
RV-12... here I come!
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