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  #11  
Old 04-04-2016, 08:23 PM
spark68 spark68 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lk Havasu City, AZ
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I'm planning to use some switch guards (the U shaped bent rod type) around my master switch and maybe others to get a reference by feel. I believe it will help, especially during night flight.
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  #12  
Old 04-05-2016, 05:05 PM
SteinAir SteinAir is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
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Strangely enough, we just cut a brand new panel for a flying airplane in a rather well known VAF'ers plane (won't post name to protect the innocent), because during some turbulence or wifferdils or something he accidentally managed to trip the ELT remote...imagine his wife's surprise when she got a call about his ELT going off!

Result....he decided to relocate the ELT to an area still accessible but not necessarily in the line of movement of his non flying hand!

As others have said, each person has their own ways of handling things, we often will offer guidance and my own famously blunt opinions, but beyond that we've made them in every imaginable scenario (including the old "load instruments/switches into a shotgun and pull the trigger approach)!

Cheers,
Stein
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2016, 05:30 PM
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vlittle vlittle is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
I had a human factors guy contact me after stumbling upon my website some years back. He was involved with the design of a new jet aircraft that will remain nameless. He had nothing but complements regarding my layout and the reasoning behind it. He wanted to know where I studied and learned so much about human factors and so forth.

As side note, I have seen switches scattered all over the place. Flap switches down between the seats, up on the top of the panel, just under the glair shield, you name it. On a bumpy flight, those locations can make it difficult to reach and take the correct action. Between the seats was an odd one as you will have to do it by feel.

Interior light switches next to taxi and landing lights are not a good thing because if you are coming in to land at night and flip on the interior lights instead of the landing & taxi lights you could ruin your night vision.

While we as builders and fliers learn our panels, rows and rows of intermixed switches aren't always "best practice".

What I did was mocked up my panel and kept moving things around until I was comfortable with the position of everything, including switch spacing for my big hands. On a go-around you can push the levers forward, push the carb heat in, and toggle the flaps up without removing your hand from the throttle quadrant.

The master switch, mag switches, and starter button are all in a row; master on, mags on, press the starter. In an in flight emergency, you just go right down the row, you don't need to hunt for switches or buttons.

Things the passenger can mess with, put on the right side; panel lights (not used very much) are just right of center, interior lights and cabin heat are way over on the right side. Still accessible from the left seat but out of the way.

Remember, you are designing for the worst case, high stress, situation. Not necessarily for sunny day no problem flights. The simpler and more logical you can lay our panel out the better. When in a high stress situation, one of the first things that goes is your fine motor skills. Thus placing switches close to one another that have nothing to do with primary flight situations could become an issue at the worst time.
Totally agree that this stuff is very important. In a stressful situation, the spatial separation is imporant. Also, for certain mission phases, such as formation flight, certain switches need to come to hand quickly.

I would add that whenever a function is OFF, the switch toggle should be down. This makes visual scanning easy. I have dual function light switches that are OFF-WIGWAG-ON. I see this done where the center is the OFF position, but that is not in keeping with down-OFF. I had to design a special flasher for this, but it was worth it for me.

My ignition switches and master switches are on the side panel, well away from everything else.

One thing I had to do is put a second trim switch on my Throttle. The hat switch on my Infinity grip works fine, but I usually fly formation with my fingertips. Repositioning my hand to activate trim leads to PIO, so hence the second switch.
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  #14  
Old 04-05-2016, 06:12 PM
VPYVO VPYVO is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
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Default Up down turn around those magnificent men .....

In many countries house light switches are down for on.
As it is in Oz. house lights.
Our Aussie Qantas Boeings are down for on.
See this thread. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ad.main/332593
My RV is down for on.
Up for on is just odd for me.
I guess thats why they should be marked on off. Mine are not . Hmmmm.
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Last edited by VPYVO : 04-06-2016 at 01:37 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-05-2016, 08:03 PM
rightrudder rightrudder is offline
 
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Location: Laguna Hills, CA
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"Down for on" seems equally bizarre to me, as it runs counter to how wall switches are set up in our homes.

When you flip on the house lights in Australia, is it down for on?
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  #16  
Old 04-05-2016, 09:16 PM
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longranger longranger is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VPYVO View Post
In many countries light switches are down for on.
As it is in Oz.
Our Boeings are down for on.
See this thread. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ad.main/332593
My RV is down for on.
Up for on is just odd for me.
I guess thats why they should be marked on off. Mine are not . Hmmmm.
Cessna 170's 1952 and earlier had "piano" style switches that were down for on. The later models make more sense to me: push/pull switches that pull for on.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2016, 09:30 PM
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Greg Arehart Greg Arehart is offline
 
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Location: Delta, CO/Atlin, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightrudder View Post
"Down for on" seems equally bizarre to me, as it runs counter to how wall switches are set up in our homes.

When you flip on the house lights in Australia, is it down for on?
Yes, also in NZ. Has something to do with being in the southern hemisphere, just like how the toilet cycles the opposite direction to what it does when you flush in the northern hemisphere....
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  #18  
Old 04-06-2016, 12:57 AM
Icarus Icarus is offline
 
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Location: D.C.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir View Post
often will offer guidance and my own famously blunt opinions...
Your blunt opinions end up costing me exponentially more than even those of my wife...But golly I love the warm glow of glass...

Back on track: The problem with people is that they are human; marvelously diverse. Can't make everyone happy. My switches are all tucked into the right hand 'arm' rest/cubby in my -4. It occasionally bugs me in the bumps to change stick hands to hit a switch; but that same annoyance has prevented an inadvertent action from happening. Additionally, if I need everything electronic to knock it off I can shut everything down with my forearm in one fell swoop, give or take a backup battery.

If I was building...I don't think I would change a thing. Well...maybe I'd do something to keep my back seater from stepping on my trim lever, admittedly thats gotten old...
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2016, 09:28 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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A year or two ago I had a chance to glance into the cockpit of an RV8 owned by Ralph Howie of British Columbia. His cockpit featured so many different types of switches that it seemed he had purchased them in a box of "odds and sods". Turns out this was all by design. Switches with similar function were of similar shape and were grouped together. Each functional group had a different shape of switch. Ralph's design goal was to be able to reliably identify and operate each switch while blindfolded. He succeeded brilliantly in achieving his goal.

By contrast, the panel for our current project was originally built by a well-recognized professional panel shop. It uses Honeywell rocker switches, which are terrific switches, but they are all in a row, tightly spaced together. The real kicker was the avionics master was located closest to the throttle, furthest from the split master, and right beside the frequently-used landing/taxi light switches. I found this to be an extremely "user unfriendly" design and spent considerable time re-arranging switches so the boost pump is closest to the throttle, followed by landing and taxi lights, with the avionics master switch now closest to the split master, way over at the other end of the row.

I still find it difficult to believe that a reputable instrument panel builder would have arranged switches so poorly. I could just see me flying an instrument approach, hitting the landing light switch, only to see my avionics blink off as I bumped the avionics master. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Last edited by Canadian_JOY : 04-06-2016 at 10:06 AM.
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  #20  
Old 04-06-2016, 10:28 AM
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vlittle vlittle is offline
 
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I've never flown blindfolded, but in formation one must be able to locate and operate common switches without looking. In addition, it's better to have these on the grip or throttle quadrant or within a finger's reach.

Now, if I could just get Siri to do all this for me.
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