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  #61  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:06 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Streaming data:

This screen displays data as the engine is running. It displays the current timing advance, the RPM, the Bus voltage, and the coil pack data. (I have no idea why it is showing different RPM's. It is very possible that the P-mag is seeing a slight difference due to the sampling rate of the electronics. This number is not used to calculate the TDA alarm.)


To be continued ...
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  #62  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:22 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Interpretation:

Randy posted some good pictures and the following is not a commentary based on his experience. It is based on how I would interpret the screens and what I would recommend the pilot / operator check.

TDA of 7.0 degrees, the maximum we report. Land immediately and check the timing. This can be caused by a lost timing mark, again a pre firmware version 40 issue. As far as I know, no one has experienced a lost timing issue with V40. (I'm keeping my fingers crossed!)

We have had customers send different timing configurations to their P-mags, which caused similar results as what Randy displays in this image.

Not wiring the P-mags and EIC per the manual can also cause extraneous EIC TDA alarms. (If you have read my posts about installing and wiring the P-mags, you now understand why it is so important!)

Believe it or not, moving the prop to TDC and blowing in one P-mag's MAP line and then walking over to the other side of the plane, without moving the prop, and blowing in the other P-mag can cause such alarms. That is why I again recommend blowing in the MAP line and setting both TDC marks with one breath, rather than individually.

The low coil pack data on the right side isn't a concern but I would continue to monitor it over time.



This picture was taken prior to engine start, note the coil pack data is not displayed and the timing advance outputted is the default 19.6. The P-mag never puts out the starting mode timing.


To be continued ...
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Last edited by N941WR : 02-10-2016 at 07:25 PM.
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  #63  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:28 PM
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Something is not right...

Notice on this picture that the TDA alarm is above 2.0 and that the right coil data is very low. I would probably pull this P-mag and send it back for inspection.


The "XXX" in the red box (left P-mag) indicates the P-mag isn't putting out some or all of the streaming serial data. This can happen because the EIC lost communication with the P-mag or because the P-mag was busy firing the plugs and didn't out put some or all of the data. Typically resetting the EIC (pressing the black button) will correct this issue.


To be continued...
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Last edited by N941WR : 02-10-2016 at 09:02 PM.
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  #64  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:36 PM
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That is the basics of the EIC operation.

I hope / expect Randy to chime in with his experience.

Great set of photos Randy, thanks for posting them.
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  #65  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:56 PM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
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FWIW one more data point.

I have 2 114 Pmags without the latest software. I run a heavy prop and have timed them to be approx. 2 deg after TDC. So I don't feel I would benefit from the lastest software.

Anyway, I only have 42 hrs so far so my experience is low but steadily growing. CHT's run in the low to mid 300's. I do have a GRT engine monitor and do study the data often. It would seem to me that both Pmags have been flawless. I feel that if one would be advancing the timing too far or otherwise functioning improperly, CHT on one or several cylinders would rise unexpectedly, and or unusual vibration would occur. Am I wrong? Consistent engine feel (vibration), power and temps is how I know they are/were running fine.

While anything mechanical and electronic can fail, I feel comfortable knowing I have two independent ignitions that can be run L, R or both, and many others have had great experiences too. Is there something wrong with this assumption?

Bevan

PS I have no EI Commander installed but blast tubes to the finned areas as per the instructions.
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  #66  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:57 PM
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FasGlas FasGlas is online now
 
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Thanks Bill for sifting through the huge stack of EIC pics I've accumulated over the last few years. You've laid down the basics of the Commander and only some if it's functions ( it does many ), but functions that pertain to the problems.

As you know I'm now running a ver 40 left and ver 36 right set of pmags. Prior to the ver 40 they were both ver 36 as new from emag. I can address the few points you've shown in the example pics. The XXXX's for example did not go away after a B6 reset, they would show sometimes for hours. The 7* TDA was never displayed until I changed the left board to a ver 40. The 4.0 TDA was during cruise flight and randomly would change from 2.0 to over 5 TDA with nothing else changing. And of course the stopped left / right timing displayed is after the prop has been moved from pushing the plane back into the hangar, it should show nearly the same degrees left and right.

I have shouted the importance of the EIC over and over and this is why. Regardless of the interpretation of the results the EIC display pics I've posted speak for themselves. There are obvious anomalies going on and the EIC does monitor them and show them. My EIC has been flawless, wish I could say the same for the pmags they are connected to.
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  #67  
Old 02-10-2016, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
FWIW one more data point.

I have 2 114 Pmags without the latest software. I run a heavy prop and have timed them to be approx. 2 deg after TDC. So I don't feel I would benefit from the lastest software....
If you have a key switch that un-grounds both P-mags per the manual, you will probably never have an issue.

HOWEVER...

If you are using toggle switches, and forget to unground one P-mag when you hit the starter, you have about a 40% chance of resetting the TDC mark on the ignition that was powered but grounded (ie. in setup mode).

As I stated above, I am yet to hear of a single lost timing issue with V40 114 P-mags and that version has been out for about a year and a half.
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  #68  
Old 02-11-2016, 01:32 AM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
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Thanks Bill,

I have the traditional start switch controlling the P-leads. So no problem there.

However, if the breaker/fuse that allows electrical power to the Pmag is off when the P-leads are ungrounded and the starter is engaged, I understand that the engine will turn over, likely not start but most importantly, I won't cause any damage or changes to the timing settings? Correct?

Also, when doing a runup check, I use 1700 RPM and leaned out a bit, I get about 100 drop on one Pmag, about 60 on the other. Is this because I have one set firing the top plugs while the other fires the bottoms or could there be also another cause?

Bevan
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O-360-A1F6 (parallel valve) 180HP
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Grand Rapids EFIS
Located in western Canada

Last edited by Bevan : 02-11-2016 at 01:35 AM. Reason: 2nd question
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  #69  
Old 02-11-2016, 03:41 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
Thanks Bill,

I have the traditional start switch controlling the P-leads. So no problem there.

However, if the breaker/fuse that allows electrical power to the Pmag is off when the P-leads are ungrounded and the starter is engaged, I understand that the engine will turn over, likely not start but most importantly, I won't cause any damage or changes to the timing settings? Correct?
The problem seems to happen when they are grounded but powered, so you should be OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
Also, when doing a runup check, I use 1700 RPM and leaned out a bit, I get about 100 drop on one Pmag, about 60 on the other. Is this because I have one set firing the top plugs while the other fires the bottoms or could there be also another cause?

Bevan
I believe you are correct. Mine are staggered, like traditional mags and my drop is around 50 RPM; however, I do my run-up at 1500 RPM and watch the EIC as well as the tach.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 02-11-2016 at 03:43 AM.
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  #70  
Old 02-12-2016, 09:25 AM
Michael Burbidge Michael Burbidge is offline
 
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Default Nagging doubts now...

I'm a casual p-mag user. By that I mean, I conscienciously installed my p-mag per instructions. I always pre-flight per recommendations. But I don't have that much instrumentation. I have a Van's CHT and EGT gauge on #3.

I only have a few hours on my p-mag. (One p-mag, one slick) But so far it has performed reliably.

In some ways this thread is unfortunate. Now every time I fly I have nagging doubts about my p-mag. I notice the slick in the back of the hangar and wonder if I should just get it overhauled, to get rid of my doubts.

Yes I could install more instrumentation. But I like keeping my airplane simple. That's one thing I really liked about p-mag. It is a simple, straightforward replacement for my slick that needed overhauling.

If I knew the answers to the following questions, I might feel better.

How many engines have be ruined by a p-mag? How many inflight engine stoppages have been caused by a p-mag?

Thanks,
Michael-
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