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  #81  
Old 01-27-2016, 08:13 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
Default Magic

Here's what we're up against with typical vertical induction Lycomings:



Bad pairings, unequal shapes, small plenum volume and unequal runner lengths.

A recent test flight on a four cylinder with the fuel trim option had one cylinder at +2% and another at -9% to get all to peak at the same time. Was able to run at 200F LOP with uber smoothness.

Hopefully have more details soon.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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  #82  
Old 01-29-2016, 01:31 PM
Don at Airflow Don at Airflow is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 316
Default Not magic, just facts

Of course that intake manifold was designed for a carburetor to be wet flowed. But even then, the most we see on most RV-10?s running that sump with our fuel injection (or Precision) is 1.5 to 2.5% total change in flow to get 0.2 GPH spread. On four cylinder up draft sumps it?s usually less than 1% to 1.5%. The Superior front sump is better. But the exhaust system plays a big role in the air distribution also. So if the engine you were working had an 11% (+2% to -9%) spread in airflow between cylinders then I would say that the engine was really screwed up. Or perhaps the fuel distribution was not equal, to begin with.
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  #83  
Old 01-29-2016, 02:22 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don at Airflow View Post
Of course that intake manifold was designed for a carburetor to be wet flowed. But even then, the most we see on most RV-10’s running that sump with our fuel injection (or Precision) is 1.5 to 2.5% total change in flow to get 0.2 GPH spread. On four cylinder up draft sumps it’s usually less than 1% to 1.5%. The Superior front sump is better. But the exhaust system plays a big role in the air distribution also. So if the engine you were working had an 11% (+2% to -9%) spread in airflow between cylinders then I would say that the engine was really screwed up. Or perhaps the fuel distribution was not equal, to begin with.
I'd use the word "designed" here loosely. Lycoming simply joined everything together so it fit. Huge GAMI spreads are not uncommon on Lycoming engines as delivered with a variety of sumps. I'd look towards the transverse, Sky Dynamics plenum for something that's designed properly. One client has that fitted along with Lycon flow matched heads and equal length exhaust. Will be interesting to see what the basic spread is on that one.

The owner can comment. As far as I know the engine is fresh, not sure what exhaust he has on it. He changed to a Superior sump and it changed nothing in his case. Swapped injectors to different holes and that changed nothing. Clearly he has a bad case of mixture distribution which is why he wanted it fixed. This technology brings the spread to 0 at any power setting/ rpm- from the cockpit, in 45 seconds. That's as close to magic as things get in the Lycoming world. Trying to bring these engines into the 21st century with modern electronic controls and features. I don't design manifolds for Lycomings, just provide the tools for our customers to fix any imbalances they have.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm



Last edited by rv6ejguy : 01-30-2016 at 07:57 PM.
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  #84  
Old 01-29-2016, 06:46 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
Default

The ability to trim individual injectors with a keyboard entry is an excellent feature. My compliments to Ross and the SDS team for getting the job done so quickly. Way to go!
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RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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  #85  
Old 01-30-2016, 09:45 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
The ability to trim individual injectors with a keyboard entry is an excellent feature. My compliments to Ross and the SDS team for getting the job done so quickly. Way to go!
Thanks Dan. Appreciate the comment. My hardware/ software guy is amazing and worked hard on making this seamless and simple which is our trademark. Working on a couple more software releases to further improve the product for the aviation market- reducing mechanical devices and dependency.Will be testing and validating those this week.

There will also be some new fuel and ignition hardware for 540s released by weeks end.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm



Last edited by rv6ejguy : 07-04-2016 at 04:45 PM. Reason: typo
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  #86  
Old 01-30-2016, 01:46 PM
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carrollcw carrollcw is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post

The owner can comment. As far as I know the engine is fresh, not sure what exhaust he has on it. He changed to a Superior sump and it changed nothing in his case. Swapped injectors to different holes and that changed nothing. Clearly he has a bad scenario case which is why he wanted it fixed. This technology brings the spread to 0 at any power setting/ rpm- from the cockpit, in 45 seconds. That's as close to magic as things get in the Lycoming world. Trying to bring these engines into the 21st century with modern electronic controls and features. I don't design manifolds for Lycomings, just provide the tools for our customers to fix any imbalances they have.
As Ross stated, yes I did swap the sump from Titan (ECI) to Superior with no noticeable changes, so the sump swap was a huge waste of time and money. As can be seen in my screen shots, the engine is a new Titan IOX370 (100 hours) running standard Vetterman crossover exhaust.

With the help from Rusty Crawford, this modification to my existing EFII setup only took a few hours and was relatively simple.

As the pics below show, after 45 seconds of tuning, I went from a GAMI spread of 1.3 to a GAMI spread of 0. Engine runs smooth all the way to about 200 deg LOP where as before I could only get to about 80 deg LOP since before when 80 LOP, cylinders 1/3 were at about 200 deg LOP.

Another benefit is now I have a clear picture of which cylinders I need to focus on for better cooling. Before I would have thought it was 1/3, but actually I need to work on 2/4 first.

Plus, now I am getting more average power with less wasted fuel since all of the cylinders are making optimum power.

Amazing work by the SDS team and Rusty Crawford. This has been many years in the making! I feel so lucky to have gotten to try this out for them!!!

Picture 1 - Leaning to LOP before the tuning - GAMI approx 1.3, notice large EGT spread, also notice 1/3 had highest CHT's when ROP, but coldest when LOP
Picture 2 - Leaning to LOP after the tuning - GAMI 0, notice how 2/4 always have hottest CHT's now.
Picture 3 - ROP climb before tuning - Large EGT spread
Picture 4 - ROP climb after tuning

Picture 1


Picture 2


Picture 3


Picture 4
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RV-7 Flying Since March 2015
N412HC
Titan IOX-370
SDS Tunable Injectors
EFII Dual Ignition and Fuel Injection
Garmin G3X Touch
Whirl Wind 200RV Prop
7XS0 Polly Ranch Airpark, Friendswood, TX
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  #87  
Old 01-30-2016, 02:15 PM
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carrollcw carrollcw is offline
 
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Default

Heres a couple more pics:

ROP Before


ROP After


LOP After
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RV-7 Flying Since March 2015
N412HC
Titan IOX-370
SDS Tunable Injectors
EFII Dual Ignition and Fuel Injection
Garmin G3X Touch
Whirl Wind 200RV Prop
7XS0 Polly Ranch Airpark, Friendswood, TX
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  #88  
Old 01-30-2016, 06:38 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Location: Mojave
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Default

Since the lack of plenum volume on the updraft sumps seems to be one of the issues, I wonder if instead of the typically seen 90 degree elbow adapter used to convert to a forward facing servo, if you could instead construct a large volume airbox and attach the servo to the front of that? Im thinking a 10 inch diameter, x 3 inch deep cylinder with a servo mount right in front - essentially a very large volume "elbow". Clearly, it would be a partial solution (if it worked at all), but it would be pretty easy to do.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
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1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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  #89  
Old 01-30-2016, 08:10 PM
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Weasel Weasel is offline
 
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Location: Brooksville, MS
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
Since the lack of plenum volume on the updraft sumps seems to be one of the issues, I wonder if instead of the typically seen 90 degree elbow adapter used to convert to a forward facing servo, if you could instead construct a large volume airbox and attach the servo to the front of that? Im thinking a 10 inch diameter, x 3 inch deep cylinder with a servo mount right in front - essentially a very large volume "elbow". Clearly, it would be a partial solution (if it worked at all), but it would be pretty easy to do.
Would you design the system with a filter after the servo?
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RV-4 715hr Sold
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RV-8 700+hrs
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  #90  
Old 01-30-2016, 09:21 PM
carrollcw's Avatar
carrollcw carrollcw is offline
 
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Location: Friendswood, TX
Posts: 193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
Since the lack of plenum volume on the updraft sumps seems to be one of the issues, I wonder if instead of the typically seen 90 degree elbow adapter used to convert to a forward facing servo, if you could instead construct a large volume airbox and attach the servo to the front of that? Im thinking a 10 inch diameter, x 3 inch deep cylinder with a servo mount right in front - essentially a very large volume "elbow". Clearly, it would be a partial solution (if it worked at all), but it would be pretty easy to do.
Interesting idea, but I don't think that would do anything to balance uneven airflow. It may increase the airflow overall, but the imbalance would still be there. By tuning the injectors, the imbalance is a moot point now.
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RV-7 Flying Since March 2015
N412HC
Titan IOX-370
SDS Tunable Injectors
EFII Dual Ignition and Fuel Injection
Garmin G3X Touch
Whirl Wind 200RV Prop
7XS0 Polly Ranch Airpark, Friendswood, TX
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