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12-27-2015, 10:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1R
That is the biggest reason I keep a D6 in my panel right below the MiniX. Just a plain AI and pitch ladder to easily see attitude on climb out on black nights and IMC.
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Just remember that for a maximum performance climb the ASI (Vy), not the AI, is primary.
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12-28-2015, 03:18 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East TN
Posts: 564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclark
I too have found the "horizon line" takes a bit of getting used to as well. Even been tempted to switch the more traditional view.
I have considered asking them to make the horizon line on the Synthetic Vision a few dots thicker.
James
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Yes, I wondered if there is a setting somewhere that allows for the user to change the horizon line thickness or brightness.
__________________
Lancair 235/340
RV-9A (2013 - 2016)
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12-28-2015, 04:44 AM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ft Laudedale FL
Posts: 180
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Love my GRT HX
We have the only system (GRT) that can play back all flights just as they were originally flown and shown on the EFIS. Just program the Demo mode to start at a selected speed or rpm and end with zero rpm or speed. I selected file size of 30 minutes, a 2 gig thumb drive in the USB slot will have space for about 100 hrs or perhaps much more. The playback of just one flight as often as you wish provides much practice with your efis and burn no fuel. Just don't run your battery too low. I love my HX just the way GRT designed it. Wishing you and all a happy new year!
__________________
Dale
ATP, dreamer and maintainer; but not a builder
RV6a N18XP 960TT (builder: Jerry Cochran)
RV6a flight experience 2100 hrs
Superior IO-360 2007
Hartzell Blended Airfoil Prop
Dual LS EI, Dual Battery
GRT HX efis & RAIM GPS, 2 axis GRT autopilot
G696, GDL39 WX, Traffic
Dynon D10
Gear Leg Stiffeners from Woodmanrog
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12-28-2015, 05:54 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gold Hill, NC25
Posts: 2,400
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It would take me many hours of training to get back comfortable with a 6 pack, if ever. I never really was comfortable in all my IFR training with a 6 pack. I was immediately comfortable with an EFIS.
The horizontal white line is adjustable location with the pitch ladder offset that will move it up and down relative. I have mine on horizon level cruise flight. Its amazing to see the different location based on angle of attack, which changes with weight and altitude.
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Kahuna
6A, S8 ,
Gold Hill, NC25
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12-28-2015, 06:21 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mesa Arizona
Posts: 608
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Maybe I'm missing something in the commentary, and I've never used the particular PFD you're talking about, however, it is normal for most if not all aircraft large and small for the aircraft to cruise in level flight at a higher pitch attitude as altitude increases. If you graphed it out, I imagine that it would be pretty much relative to the change in IAS vs TAS as altitude increases.
An accurate display might show little to no pitch up in level flight at 1000 feet msl and 3-4 degrees or more pitch up at service ceiling. Depending upon the graphics scale the difference might appear significant.
In the old days of steam gauges, the pitch pip was adjustable which a lot of pilots would just reset without thinking in cruise just to see a level depiction (bad habit IMO). That's why rental aircraft often seemed to depict a few degrees below the horizon on startup and needed adjustment. Some CFI's would teach students to level off and reset the pip to the horizon. Better instructors would have a student level the pip on the ground and forbid touching the adjustment in flight to learn appreciation for the difference in attitude at altitude and to have the most accuracy for approach.
If this isn't what you guys are talking about, please disregard.
__________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
RV-10 N24EV
KITPLANES Contributing Editor
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12-28-2015, 07:26 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna
It would take me many hours of training to get back comfortable with a 6 pack, if ever. I never really was comfortable in all my IFR training with a 6 pack. I was immediately comfortable with an EFIS.
The horizontal white line is adjustable location with the pitch ladder offset that will move it up and down relative. I have mine on horizon level cruise flight. Its amazing to see the different location based on angle of attack, which changes with weight and altitude.
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That's why EFIS was invented.
When Boeing presented EFIS with the 767, some took to it like ducks to water. Others did not. They were very good with the basic 6 pack, could make quarter dot pitch changes on an ILS approach using flight director. It worked very well day in and night out.
I much preferred the new EFIS system but its been a while. There was no synthetic vision in the beginning. In the early days when paper approach charts were mandatory, they contained a lot of information that kept a flight safe but to have all of it on the screen would be a distraction, making a quarter dot correction would be difficult. Is that what synthetic vision does? Flying the approach on auto pilot would be best, the pilot simply monitors what is going on.
The company I worked for had the policy where the first officer flew the approach, either by hand or autopilot, the captain monitored until the runway was in sight and he landed the airplane, unless it was CAT 3 where the autopilot did the landing including auto braking, now isn't that sweet!!
Synthetic vision may be a consequence of technology. Like the atomic clock, something invented and a use was found for it later. The atomic clock will keep almost perfect time for 400,000 years. Some years after its perfection, GPS was invented.
Another byproduct of all this was proof Einstein was correct, traveling at any speed slows time. The clocks in the GPS system are calibrated to account for the greater speed of the satellites. it was also proven early on, an atomic clock traveling around the globe in a jet airplane recorded a different time than its mate on the ground that did not make the trip.
Thats why flight crews sometimes appear ageless, but not always. 
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
Last edited by David-aviator : 12-28-2015 at 07:33 AM.
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12-28-2015, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saint Simons Island , GA
Posts: 1,523
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Apples and Oranges
Let's all talk about the same white level line that the opening post asked about.
On the GRT in synthetic vision you have TWO lines. One is the normal plane symbol on all attitude indicators. This one is and the associated pitch ladder is adjustable in the SET menu.
The second white line is visible when synthetic vision is turned on and displays the planes current altitude in relation to the synthetic vision terrain. It is not adjustable except with altitude change, either actual or barometric. You can easily see this next time you are on the ground, look at the thin white line that goes all the way across the indicator. If the altimeter is set correctly it should be superimposed on the horizon. At 10,000 feet that white line will be up in the blue (sky) portion of the ADI. It moves just like the ADI roll portion, but not the pitch portion. It is simply a line showing where your altitude is in relation to the SV map.
This image shows the thin white line on the ground and the notmal plane symbol and pitch ladder indicating normal tail dragger attitude on the ground. The thin white altitude line is well below the terrain shown on the SV since the airport elevation is lower.
This image shows the thin white lne at 11,500.
Note the normal ADI and pitch ladder in both. They are not the same thing.
It's not meant to be be an ADI.
On the Mini with it's smaller area as you get higher you see less ground on the display. At 10,000 feet or so, you may see no ground ondicating at all, hence the blue attitude indicator.
Hope this makes sense.
__________________
Jerry "Widget" Morris
RV 8, N8JL, 3,000+ hours on my 8.
VAF #818
Saint Simons Island, GA. KSSI
PIF 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
 I just wish I could afford to live the way I do
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12-28-2015, 08:51 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East TN
Posts: 564
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Good discussion, thanks.
A few thoughts. ..
I did set the thin white line to level attitude in cruise flight on the first flight after installation.
Even departing from my home airport in the mountains of northeast Tennessee(0A9) all I see is blue on climbout.
I did not know the pitch ladder boldness was adjustable. Will have to try that.
I would like the thin white horizon line to be adjustable.
__________________
Lancair 235/340
RV-9A (2013 - 2016)
Last edited by FORANE : 12-28-2015 at 08:55 AM.
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01-07-2016, 01:09 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 37
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So the problem appears to be that the syn vis horizon appears far too low on the GRT Mini when at cruise altitude. Compare these two photos, taken at the same altitude and attitude, of my GRT Mini and Garmin G3X.
The G3X horizon is much safer in the event of spacial disorientation. It also conforms much better to what I see out of the cockpit.

__________________
Christian Bailey
Berkut 540
Robinson R44
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01-27-2016, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Weatherford TX
Posts: 26
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Christian,
Not to change the subject of the thread, but is the magenta "+" on your attitude indicator on the G3X the flight director? I thought the Garmin used the inverted V for the flight director?
__________________
Brian
RV-4 N474P
Driftwood Ranch (XA86)
Weatherford, TX
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