VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-14
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-29-2015, 09:14 AM
sljester sljester is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5
Default set v. pulled rivets; Lower wing skins

I'm sure this is a rank newbie question, but I'm a rank newbie. Cost, weight, & "that's the way it's always been done" aside, what is the disadvantage of considering pulled rivets at least in the hardest areas to reach on the training edge of the lower wing skins? In flight there is no negative pressure that might try and pull them out, a touch of body filler would seal the hole, and it seems it would be a lot more consistent for a good rivet than having to use a bucking bar blind/by touch. Thanks for your patience; and the info.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-29-2015, 09:19 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

I would think pulled rivets would weigh more but regardless, if I were looking to purchase a flying RV, I would not consider one with pulled rivets (other than an RV-12) because it would make me wonder what other shortcuts were taken.

Invite another builder in your EAA chapter over to help set those rivets.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-29-2015, 09:20 AM
Mark Dickens's Avatar
Mark Dickens Mark Dickens is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
Posts: 1,433
Default

If you use the right pulled rivet (Cherry Max) as a substitute, there should be no issue, but don't fill the rivet head. You need to be able to see that the stem is seated correctly when you do your condition inspections. Having said all of this, I don't recall there being a huge issue with bucking solid rivets in that location.
__________________
RV-8 #81077 Super Slow Build
Dynon Skyview HDX, Titan IOX-370, Dual P-Mags, AFP FM200A FI, Whirlwind 200RV CS Prop
First Flight 11/20/2016
www.marksrv8.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-29-2015, 10:00 AM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
Default Bucking bar jig

Before closing up, I made a little wood block jig for the tungsten bar. The jig was cut so the face of the bar would be correct for the row along the rear spar. I added a string lanyard so it couldn't fall. Those were some of the easiest to buck. Find a partner to help and it goes by pretty fast. Cut the toe off an old sock and use it to protect your arm from rib scars.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-29-2015, 10:04 AM
az_gila's Avatar
az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dickens View Post
If you use the right pulled rivet (Cherry Max) as a substitute, there should be no issue, but don't fill the rivet head. You need to be able to see that the stem is seated correctly when you do your condition inspections. Having said all of this, I don't recall there being a huge issue with bucking solid rivets in that location.
Don't know about the -14, but the instructions for the -4 and -6 planes specifically allow the entire lower wing skins to be installed with MK319BS pulled rivets.

These are not the usual CherryMax airframe rivets.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-29-2015, 10:48 AM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
Default

Ditto for the RV-3B.

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-29-2015, 10:50 AM
StuBob StuBob is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock View Post
Before closing up, I made a little wood block jig for the tungsten bar. The jig was cut so the face of the bar would be correct for the row along the rear spar. I added a string lanyard so it couldn't fall. Those were some of the easiest to buck. Find a partner to help and it goes by pretty fast. Cut the toe off an old sock and use it to protect your arm from rib scars.
Larry, do you have a picture? The jig, I mean, not the sock.
__________________
Stu F.
RV8
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-29-2015, 11:07 AM
Lynnb's Avatar
Lynnb Lynnb is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cedar Hill, TX
Posts: 329
Default

I think it is more a cost thing. Just for grins I counted rivets that were needed for the bottom skins of the 10 wings. Then figured out what the MK's would cost, vs the standard rivets. It was several hundred dollars for the MK's vs 20 or 30 for the regular rivets.

Just my thoughts.

Lynn
__________________
RV-10 in Process
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-29-2015, 02:31 PM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 356
Default

It is almost completely a cost issue and also a small weight issue. Having built a Sonex that is almost completely a pulled rivet airplane, I am very comfortable with the right pulled rivet in almost any location.

There are a lot of different types of pulled rivets made with a lot of different materials and different types of mandrels. In my Sonex, the mandrel is irrelevant to the strength of the rivet.

It would be a lot more costly to build the entire underside of the wing with pulled rivets (and Cherry Max would be overkill) but there is almost certainly a pulled rivet that would work.

My only trivial complaint on the 14 is that there are a few more locations than noted in the plans, for access reasons only, where I think the kit could have just specified a suitable pulled rivet substitute. So far I have accomplished all the really hard ones with no problem. I just wish I didn't have too.
__________________
Bob Meyers

Built and Flying RV-14A N626KM SN 140093 http://n626km.com
Built and Flying Sonex N982SX http://n982sx.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-29-2015, 04:51 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
Larry, do you have a picture? The jig, I mean, not the sock.
I still have it. The jig that is, not the sock.
The wedge was taped roughly as shown. The forward bottom of the wedge (left) was relieved to clear shop heads on the rear spar. This was for my 7a.

__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:53 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.