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12-29-2015, 09:14 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5
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set v. pulled rivets; Lower wing skins
I'm sure this is a rank newbie question, but I'm a rank newbie. Cost, weight, & "that's the way it's always been done" aside, what is the disadvantage of considering pulled rivets at least in the hardest areas to reach on the training edge of the lower wing skins? In flight there is no negative pressure that might try and pull them out, a touch of body filler would seal the hole, and it seems it would be a lot more consistent for a good rivet than having to use a bucking bar blind/by touch. Thanks for your patience; and the info.
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12-29-2015, 09:19 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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I would think pulled rivets would weigh more but regardless, if I were looking to purchase a flying RV, I would not consider one with pulled rivets (other than an RV-12) because it would make me wonder what other shortcuts were taken.
Invite another builder in your EAA chapter over to help set those rivets.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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12-29-2015, 09:20 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
Posts: 1,433
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If you use the right pulled rivet (Cherry Max) as a substitute, there should be no issue, but don't fill the rivet head. You need to be able to see that the stem is seated correctly when you do your condition inspections. Having said all of this, I don't recall there being a huge issue with bucking solid rivets in that location.
__________________
RV-8 #81077 Super Slow Build
Dynon Skyview HDX, Titan IOX-370, Dual P-Mags, AFP FM200A FI, Whirlwind 200RV CS Prop
First Flight 11/20/2016
www.marksrv8.com
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12-29-2015, 10:00 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
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Bucking bar jig
Before closing up, I made a little wood block jig for the tungsten bar. The jig was cut so the face of the bar would be correct for the row along the rear spar. I added a string lanyard so it couldn't fall. Those were some of the easiest to buck. Find a partner to help and it goes by pretty fast. Cut the toe off an old sock and use it to protect your arm from rib scars.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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12-29-2015, 10:04 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dickens
If you use the right pulled rivet (Cherry Max) as a substitute, there should be no issue, but don't fill the rivet head. You need to be able to see that the stem is seated correctly when you do your condition inspections. Having said all of this, I don't recall there being a huge issue with bucking solid rivets in that location.
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Don't know about the -14, but the instructions for the -4 and -6 planes specifically allow the entire lower wing skins to be installed with MK319BS pulled rivets.
These are not the usual CherryMax airframe rivets.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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12-29-2015, 10:48 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
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Ditto for the RV-3B.
Dave
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12-29-2015, 10:50 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock
Before closing up, I made a little wood block jig for the tungsten bar. The jig was cut so the face of the bar would be correct for the row along the rear spar. I added a string lanyard so it couldn't fall. Those were some of the easiest to buck. Find a partner to help and it goes by pretty fast. Cut the toe off an old sock and use it to protect your arm from rib scars.
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Larry, do you have a picture? The jig, I mean, not the sock. 
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Stu F.
RV8
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12-29-2015, 11:07 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cedar Hill, TX
Posts: 329
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I think it is more a cost thing. Just for grins I counted rivets that were needed for the bottom skins of the 10 wings. Then figured out what the MK's would cost, vs the standard rivets. It was several hundred dollars for the MK's vs 20 or 30 for the regular rivets.
Just my thoughts.
Lynn
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RV-10 in Process
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12-29-2015, 02:31 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 356
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It is almost completely a cost issue and also a small weight issue. Having built a Sonex that is almost completely a pulled rivet airplane, I am very comfortable with the right pulled rivet in almost any location.
There are a lot of different types of pulled rivets made with a lot of different materials and different types of mandrels. In my Sonex, the mandrel is irrelevant to the strength of the rivet.
It would be a lot more costly to build the entire underside of the wing with pulled rivets (and Cherry Max would be overkill) but there is almost certainly a pulled rivet that would work.
My only trivial complaint on the 14 is that there are a few more locations than noted in the plans, for access reasons only, where I think the kit could have just specified a suitable pulled rivet substitute. So far I have accomplished all the really hard ones with no problem. I just wish I didn't have too.
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12-29-2015, 04:51 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBob
Larry, do you have a picture? The jig, I mean, not the sock. 
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I still have it. The jig that is, not the sock.
The wedge was taped roughly as shown. The forward bottom of the wedge (left) was relieved to clear shop heads on the rear spar. This was for my 7a.

__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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