First-time builder dilemma: RV-3 or RV-8?

[David Paule]

Originally Posted by rph142

Are 3's really the best flying experience?....

Sure hope so! I'm building one.

Gotta admit that I'm doing it more for the fun of the building than to have a fun plane, although I won't object to that.

To the OP, run the costs out say a thousand hours and see if the lower fuel burn of an RV-12 works out any cheaper, all in all. It handles great and has exceptional visibility. And of course other non-RV aircraft might be even cheaper.

Dave, RV-3B,
Started riveting flaps today

[N941WR]

You can build a light and simple RV-8 using a FP prop and get plenty of performance out of it. Then when you have the extra cash, put a CS prop on the front and add the luxury items you want, as your budget allows.

As for the biannual flight review in a -3, the regs state that the CFI only has to observe you. (Unless the regs have changed.) A friend took his BFR in his -3 with the CFI sitting on the ground telling the pilot what maneuver he wanted him to do via handheld radio. (Loop, roll, stall, spin, etc. - It was one heck of a show!)

[ppilotmike]

Originally Posted by N941WR

As for the biannual flight review in a -3, the regs state that the CFI only has to observe you. (Unless the regs have changed.) A friend took his BFR in his -3 with the CFI sitting on the ground telling the pilot what maneuver he wanted him to do via handheld radio. (Loop, roll, stall, spin, etc. - It was one heck of a show!)

Awesome!

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by N941WR

As for the biannual flight review in a -3, the regs state that the CFI only has to observe you. (Unless the regs have changed.) A friend took his BFR in his -3 with the CFI sitting on the ground telling the pilot what maneuver he wanted him to do via handheld radio. (Loop, roll, stall, spin, etc. - It was one heck of a show!)

I took my type rating checkride in a single-seat jet in a similar fashion - a list of things to do on my kneeboard, and a GoPro camera mounted above my head on the canopy watching the panel and horizon. Had to do it to ATP standards, and the GoPro and EFIS told the tale.

Not sure the average CFI woudl be happy doing a BFR that way, but I know its been done! Then again, the OP (remember the OP? asked a simple quesiton ages and pages back?) is in Europe, and I have no idea what the rules are there.

[sdh]

Thank you all for the encouragement and information!

Between Christmas preparations a few things I thought over: While the -3 would seemingly be the best handling-wise, it would be a tight fit to stay within weight limitations. Supposing I could manage a 800-850 lbs empty weight build, heaving my 82 kg + clothing/boots/helmet (~200 lbs) into the cockpit already maxes out zero-fuel weight.

An alternative might be a 1+1 -4: Move back the front seat 3 or 4 inches (Is that wise? Would also move the V-shaped braces under the longeron to align with the rollover bar), dispense with back-stick capability, and see the rear seat as baggage room and possible emergency seating means; think of motorcycle rear post which is not really fun for a person either. For check rides I could easily rent one of the aeroclub's Robin DR400.

This might be a silly question, but is the weight difference between a 320 and 360 engine really that much of an issue? Just for the discussion, Superior advertises for the XP engines a weight difference between the two at 7 lbs which seems not much, so while perhaps not worth it for a -3, a -4 with a 360 engine would not incur a too large increase in weight over a similar 320 one. As a previous poster brought forward, Avgas will sooner or later go, and e.g. in Germany Mogas is readily available (and might spread further over the continent in the future); so it seems that staying with a standard-compression 360 would keep this option viable in a better way than a similarly-powered higher-compression 320.

Summing up my discussion ideas up until now:

• day-only VFR (no landing/taxi lights weight),
• fuel-injected IO-320 or IO-360,
• dual electronic ignition/P-mags,
• lightweight WW or MT CS prop,
• smaller/lighter alternator (transponder, radio, EFIS, and fuel boost pump should be able to be run off a small alternator, e.g. the SD-20),
• EFIS with ALT/ASI steam backup,
• lightweight comm and transponder (e.g. Trig seems to manufacture light ones),
• electric trim (seems lighter than manual),
• manual flaps (or electric if that saves weight),
• hoping that 2016ff. EU regulations will allow PLBs instead of heavier ELTs for small aircraft,
• shedding a few pilot pounds after the holidays (no chance before due to sumptuous Christmas cooking ...)

If ending up with these ideas after gaining more flying experience and tackling the building, would I be able to get a -4 with the 360 under 1000 lbs, or a -3 with the 320 under 850 lbs?


Cheers and happy holidays,
Sebastian

[Waterobert]

RV-3 under 850 lbs is very realistic. Few weeks ago someone finished one around 735 lbs.
I don't know how wide is -3's cabin, will you have enough elbow room on longer flights?
Does anyone know?

[wilddog]

You would have to work to get a RV-3 up to 850#. Mine is 755# with a 0-320D1A, wood prop, mags, light starter, steam gauges, paint, com and transponder. It could be less with EFIS, EI ignition and a light weight battery. More weight could be saved with a newer com and xponder. You could also skip the paint and polish it for another 20-30# saving.