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  #31  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:08 AM
Chkaharyer99 Chkaharyer99 is offline
 
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Location: Pilot Hill, CA
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Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
I am still in Phase I and still learning the flight envelope of my 6A. The other day I was talking with someone about avoidance maneuvering in the pattern. It got me wondering what my limits are here. During transition training I was taught to keep turns under 30* bank, but wondering how much further I can go.

I have been making my approaches at 85 MPH and often slowing to 75 MPH on short final. Does anyone have a good idea how much bank can be accommodated before stall at 85 MPH. Is 45* still safe? I know that someday I will be cut off in the pattern and would like to understand how aggressively I can react.

I appreciate any guidance from those more knowledgeable.

Larry
Larry,

Great question.

I'm definitely not more knowledgeable nor more experienced but, it seems to me that a quality, properly calibrated AoA with audio and visual queues would warn you of an impending stall regardless of weight or speed. That along with all the other great responses/recommendations should help keep you from stalling in the pattern.
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  #32  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:44 AM
pvalovich pvalovich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 432
Default The Real World Intrudes

Doesn't much matter what bank angle limits you were taught in training. For folks not accustomed to aerobatic flight, there are two flight regimes where an accelerated stall can possibly bite you - 1) The landing pattern trying to salvage an overshoot; 2) After take off if you have problems and decide to turn back to the field (Note: this is not an attempt to reopen the turn back debate).

I can't understand why anyone would not practice turning/accelerated stalls at altitude in order to develop a feel for how the airplane handles as it approaches stalls while turning close to the ground. If you don't hamfist the recovery with continued back pressure, the RV will instantly recover if you let go, with minimal altitude loss.

Better to learn and develop a feel at altitude rather than be surprised for the first time in the pattern.
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  #33  
Old 10-06-2015, 12:01 PM
Firstlight Firstlight is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 57
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Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
Thanks for all advise here. I have done some additional research (the video link helped) and now feel comfortable getting out there to do some practice.

As I do these stalls, I know that proper rudder coordination is key to avoiding spins. I was wondering if anyone has any tricks for re-learning the muscle memory for the RV-6. After 200 hours of 182's and Arrow's, I find that I often add in too much rudder, except in cases where there is P factor. I don't agressively over-do it, but I see the ball out a little, especially entering my turns at cruise speed. It is not excessive and I look at the ball a lot to catch it. However, I know that I will be much safer once I can sub-consciously coordinate in turns. The RV seems to require very light amounts of rudder input for banked turns relative to the other planes I have flown.

Does anyone have a good trick or learning aide for this? Any feelings to look for to catch yourself out of coordination in the RV?

Thanks,

Larry
Larry, I recommend learning to really *see* when you look out. If you spend a bit of time consciously looking forward over the nose as you roll in and out of turns, you will become much more aware of the amount of yaw and roll. Pretty quickly you can tell visually when you have too much or too little yaw rate for the roll rate you're commanding.

Once you've tuned up your visual sense and consolidate a picture of what "looks right", you can start to associate the kinesthetics of well coordinated turns with the visuals. In not long at all, you will have a tuned up pilot's behind, and that is an instrument that works in any airplane.

I find a lot of my students fly like they're drunk - yawing and lurching from side to side. If I help them settle down and first see, then feel the airplane as it rolls in and out of turns, they show much better control in all flight phases. Covering the slip/skid ball can help pilots become active, rather than reactive. I bought a biplane a few years ago that did not have a slip/skid ball. I found it to be a wonderful tool for tightening up my own sloppiness.

Good luck with your flight testing.
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  #34  
Old 12-16-2015, 09:46 AM
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tmbg tmbg is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 240
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Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
To keep the answer as simple as possible, you will never be unsafe at that speed if the G load is at or near 1G. Accelerated stalls require a G load on the airplane and pilots get into trouble hauling back on the stick in the turn to final when they over shoot. Don't let yourself do that, keep the G load near one and you'll be ok. Go around and set it up better the next try.

Angle of bank is no factor at 1 G.
^ this.

Plus, you can't stall at zero G. Natural instinct should be to unload the wing if you feel it start to let go. For the non-acro pilot this means relax backpressure and/or push, but more generally reduce angle of attack.

If you don't yet have any spin training, something to stick in the back of your head is "nose down, step on the sky". If you go out and practice some accelerated stalls, there's no reason to get worked up about it. Keep it coordinated, and all you'll get is some buffet and complaining like Toobuilder mentioned. If you have too much inside rudder and it starts to want to drop a wing, your instinct should be "nose down, step on the sky", which is a mnemonic for unloading the wing and applying yaw counter to the pro-spin yaw.

RVs spin well and recover well, and it's not something to stress about. Get some upset/spin training if at all possible and you'll be far more comfortable with maneuvering your slick little hot-rod
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