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12-04-2015, 08:40 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Benton, Kansas
Posts: 259
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Aileron Bellcranks...
Arlie,
One thing I just thought of with the aileron bellcranks in the RV4 wings. When you said the "rigging was way off", it sort of went along with what I was about to type when I got to the bottom of the thread. IS It possible, that you installed the aileron bellcranks backwards? If you measure, the distance between the bellcrank hinge point, and the hole that goes to the stick, it is NOT the same distance as from the hinge point to the hole to the aileron. It is possible, and in fact easy, to get the backwards. (I had mine backwards when checking travels the first time - DOH!)
This will not give proper travels, or the proper leverage to the surface. The odds are high that the bellcranks are NOT your issue, but it doesn't take long to pull that access panels and check.
You'll beat this thing!
Gregg
__________________
Gregg J. Brightwell
Benton, KS
CFII/MEII, ATP, AGI, A&P
-4 Emp and Wings complete!
Fuselage out of the jig!
www.mykitlog.com/gbrightwell
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12-04-2015, 09:36 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lufkin Tx
Posts: 689
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Alright, I have taken everyone's advice and checked everything that was mentioned that could be a problem. The bellcranks were never removed for the rebuild but I did verify they were oriented correctly. All the pushrods were checked for binding and rubbing. All clear and operating smoothly. So the only thing left is to fix the trailing edge radius. There is nothing else that can be done. If the stick resistance still persists, then it is what it is.
__________________
Arlie Conner (A&P)
RV-4 (N124TT) Sold
RV-8 (N269CP) Sold
RV-4 (N684ML) completed 3-17-19
KOCH Nacogdoches
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12-04-2015, 10:40 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Benaraby Queensland. Australia
Posts: 209
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Nothing else that can be done?
The ailerons should be operable with finge tip pressures at 150kts.
The trailing edge radius looks OK to me, but maybe that is the problem. Otherwise there is something still to be found. Have you had any feedback from Vans?
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12-05-2015, 08:12 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tampa (Wimauma actually)
Posts: 421
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Normal?
Arlie, at great risk of insulting your intelligence, I'll say this. Frankly, what the you (and Justin) describe sounds perfectly normal to me. It is, of course, all a matter of degrees. But in my RV-4, the aileron control forces are much higher at speeds above Vno and especially approaching Vne. And, that is by design. Too much control authority at those higher speeds would increase the risk of a pilot inadvertently over stressing the structure. The maximum airspeed for full control inputs in my airplane is only 115 knots. That's my design maneuvering speed, above which it is unwise to make full application of any single flight control (or "pull to the stops") as it may generate a force greater than the aircraft's structural limitations.
I think a better test would be to see if you can generate acceptable roll rates at higher speeds. Ailerons that appear "stiffer" at higher speeds may be operating perfectly normally.
__________________
Randy King
Tampa (Wimauma), Florida
RV-4 N212CS (sold)
RV-8 N184RK (flying)
Flying an A320 to pay the bills
Exempt and gladly donating anyway - Current through March 2021
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12-05-2015, 09:51 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lufkin Tx
Posts: 689
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Randy, like I said previously. I have not flown it yet and I'm just going by what Justin is telling me. After re-rigging the ailerons and lubeing/inspecting all the rod end bearings. The controls are now silky smooth as compared to before. After he flies again I will post the results. I agree that the controls are going to have more resistance the faster you go, but when someone lands and is physically shaking, I tend to believe he encountered a serious problem. Justin is not a new pilot and flies a banner plane in his spare time. Let's see how the controls feel after what has been done since the last flight?
__________________
Arlie Conner (A&P)
RV-4 (N124TT) Sold
RV-8 (N269CP) Sold
RV-4 (N684ML) completed 3-17-19
KOCH Nacogdoches
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12-05-2015, 09:54 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tampa (Wimauma actually)
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acam37
Randy, like I said previously. I have not flown it yet and I'm just going by what Justin is telling me. After re-rigging the ailerons and lubeing/inspecting all the rod end bearings. The controls are now silky smooth as compared to before. After he flies again I will post the results. I agree that the controls are going to have more resistance the faster you go, but when someone lands and is physically shaking, I tend to believe he encountered a serious problem. Justin is not a new pilot and flies a banner plane in his spare time. Let's see how the controls feel after what has been done since the last flight?
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Thanks Arlie,
Looking forward to hearing the results of the next test flight!
Randy
__________________
Randy King
Tampa (Wimauma), Florida
RV-4 N212CS (sold)
RV-8 N184RK (flying)
Flying an A320 to pay the bills
Exempt and gladly donating anyway - Current through March 2021
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12-05-2015, 04:52 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lufkin Tx
Posts: 689
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Update
We flew again today for the sole purpose of narrowing down this control stick phenominom. At 4000ft and circling the airport Justin put the plane through a bunch of steep bank turns and rocked the wings. While doing this and looking at the ailerons he described to me that they appeared to be Warping and flexing at the trailing edge, basically changing shape. After landing I grabbed the trailing edge and can easily bend the ends and they oil can pretty bad. Maybe it's time to build a new set of ailerons?
Justin also told me that while he observed the aileron "warp" at the same time it would almost jerk the stick out of his hand.
__________________
Arlie Conner (A&P)
RV-4 (N124TT) Sold
RV-8 (N269CP) Sold
RV-4 (N684ML) completed 3-17-19
KOCH Nacogdoches
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12-05-2015, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Melbourne beach, fl
Posts: 190
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Ailerons
Arlie
I had to build new ailerons for my project. I got lucky and found someone with a left aileron already built but I had to order parts for the right side. If you want I can get you the part numbers you will need for the ailerons if you go that route. For what it is worth you can order quick build ailerons for the -8 they come already built and the -4 uses the same aileron. I chose to buy the kit it will arrive on Monday. I believe it might be pre drilled but not to sure about that. I can let you know when my box arrives.
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12-06-2015, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lufkin Tx
Posts: 689
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This is a longshot, but after looking at some build log pictures I noticed that my ailerons have large lightening holes on the outside ribs leading edge and others I've seen don't. Could air be getting inside the aileron through these openings causing the skins to balloon and drastically change the airfoil shape? I'm going to tape them up and see what happens. It's worth a try anyway.
__________________
Arlie Conner (A&P)
RV-4 (N124TT) Sold
RV-8 (N269CP) Sold
RV-4 (N684ML) completed 3-17-19
KOCH Nacogdoches
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12-06-2015, 10:51 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acam37
Justin put the plane through a bunch of steep bank turns and rocked the wings. While doing this and looking at the ailerons he described to me that they appeared to be Warping and flexing at the trailing edge, basically changing shape.
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I find this rather disturbing...........
Quote:
Originally Posted by acam37
After landing I grabbed the trailing edge and can easily bend the ends ----------
Justin also told me that while he observed the aileron "warp" at the same time it would almost jerk the stick out of his hand.
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And this even more so.
I think you need to get some expert "hands on" assistance here.
Take care, fly safe.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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