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11-29-2015, 01:48 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Park Ridge, NJ
Posts: 639
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Quick Question for Rivet Experts
So I may have inadvertently forgotten to put in a rivet (or 4). Is there a chart or an easy way to cross reference an AN470AD4-5 rivet to something like a CherryMax? In building my VS, for some unknown reason, I left out rivets on the hinge doubler for the rudder. Now the whole thing is closed up and I would hate to have to tear the skin off to get to it.
Looks like there is a spreadsheet online from Cherry Aerospace, but it appears that you need to know what kind of rivet you're replacing - as in Mfg part number.
Thanks
Charlie
Last edited by cderk : 11-29-2015 at 01:50 PM.
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11-29-2015, 01:52 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 436
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Are all 4 rivets next to each other? If not, just use a solid CherryMax 1/8th. If they are next to each other I would call Vans. I would be worried about the integrety.
Just my opinion.
Nordo
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Al "Nordo" Grajek
repeat offender
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11-29-2015, 02:07 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Park Ridge, NJ
Posts: 639
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Yes, they're all next to each other...
I see the 1/8" rivets - but there are a number of them with different "grips" and i'm trying to figure out how to determine which one will work best. Looks like the CR3213-4-3?
I'm trying to determine the thicknesses of everything to figure out the right one. It looks like the Rear Spar is about .04" thick, the Top Rudder Hinge is .06" and then I'm guessing that the Hinge Doubler is about .07 or .08" thick. CR3213-4-3 grip is .126 to .187
Thanks
Charlie
Last edited by cderk : 11-29-2015 at 02:36 PM.
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11-29-2015, 02:36 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
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Cherry
Measure the thickness of the parts, add them up and reference the chart.
I agree, ask Vans to be sure.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
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Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
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I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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11-29-2015, 02:46 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL KCLW
Posts: 1,281
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That may be a hard place to get a rivet puller. They are structural rivets, and I believe approved by the FAA as substitutes for AN solid rivets, HOWEVER, you need to be able to visualize the other side of it to ensure that it set properly. Could probably do this with a borescope type camera if needed. Remember that they aren't sized the same as AN rivets so you will need the chart and material thickness. All that said, it's an important area and certainly worth running by Vans.
UPDATE: Per the FAA AC "...they should not be used where the looseness or failure of a few rivets will impair the airworthiness of the aircraft." I would think this situation may qualify for that scenario...
Chris
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Chris Johnson
RV-9A - Done(ish) 4/5/16! Flying 4/7/16
Last edited by YellowJacket RV9 : 11-29-2015 at 05:09 PM.
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11-29-2015, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Posts: 199
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Spruce has a good chart with the "grip" limits for each cherry max. You need the 3213 for the correct diameter. To find your grip size, simply add the thickness of the parts that are being riveted together. My guess would be the CR3213-4-2, which gives you a grip range of .063 - .125. My assumption is that the two pieces being mated together are .032 (spar) and .075 (bracket). If there is a doubler on the spar, then you'd need to account for that in the grip size and may need to go up to a CR3213-4-3, which has a grip range of .126 - .187.
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11-29-2015, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Park Ridge, NJ
Posts: 639
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Thanks for the replies - yes, I have a boroscope, so I can certainly inspect the inside.
Keith - thanks... that's what I was thinking, the -3 rivets. I've sent an email into Van's, so hopefully they'll let me know for sure tomorrow when they get in.
Last edited by cderk : 11-29-2015 at 03:28 PM.
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11-29-2015, 02:52 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL KCLW
Posts: 1,281
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Make sure to see my update above. I would definitely run it by the factory.
Chris
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Chris Johnson
RV-9A - Done(ish) 4/5/16! Flying 4/7/16
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11-29-2015, 03:20 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cderk
Thanks for the replies - yes, I have a horoscope, so I can certainly inspect the inside.
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I would be more comfortable using a borescope!
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
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USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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11-29-2015, 03:26 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northwestern USA
Posts: 1,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cderk
I have a horoscope, so I can certainly inspect the inside.
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With Sagittarius ascendant and Mercury in retrograde, the stars advise an abundance of caution with these structural components.
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Matt Burch
RV-7 (last 90%)
http://www.rv7blog.com
VAF #836
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not those of my employer.
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