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  #21  
Old 11-18-2015, 07:06 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
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I don't quite understand the level of discontent being expressed in this thread. I don't know about anyone else, but I look at the general size, weight and intent of the airplane and just assume that the step is not "up-armored" and designed for guys like me. I'm not surprised that over time you can, if not careful, cause it to crack. I'm happy that one possible solution has been posted. If Van's comes out with an upgraded step design, great - I may buy a pair. If not, I'll treat mine as gently as possible, watch for signs of fatigue and be ready to fix or replace them if they break.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2015, 07:17 AM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Location: Jesup, Iowa
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Default Hi Dale - -

We are not a long ways apart. Sometime we should meet mid-state and if you step on both steps one after the other, you will likely be surprised how much different they feel. If heavier pilots are fully aware of the potential, and talking about it here helps that, then it can be up to the individual. I obviously still very much like my RV-12. There have been a few things that have needed to be undated and this is one to be aware of. Overall a great plane. A few additions and mods make it even better.
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  #23  
Old 11-18-2015, 08:30 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
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John, I would love to meet somewhere. I'm in the middle of a little refurb effort here -- wings and wheel pants off, tank out, seats and carpet out, but I'm starting to re-assemble and hope to get some flying in before the weather gets really cold.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2015, 10:45 AM
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joedallas joedallas is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spring Hill Fl
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Default Design the step based on good engineering practice

In my view van's should finish their testing and see if it meets the requirements of anticipated loads
The load of a 250 pound pilot and dynamic loads and a reasonable safety factor
Special instruction for getting in and out of a aircraft is ludicrous
The owner can use common sense as Ken suggested, however the people who get in and out should not have to take lessons on how to not educe dynamic loads
Design the step based on good engineering practice


Joe Dallas



Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedFrog View Post
After two years of getting in and out I could not remember the details of how I proceed after reading this thread. Yesterday I did my exit in slow motion and mindfully. What I noticed is while facing the back with two feet on the wing, I grab the roll bar with my left hand and lower myself slowly to bring my left foot on the step. This allows to load the step progressively and prevents the dynamic load mentioned earlier. Only when my left foot bears all my weight do I release my hold on the roll bar to bring my right foot on the ground.

I am tempted to suggest that VANs include such instruction in the pilot hand book but, after a previous thread (*) answer I expect to be told that "if you are not able to get out of the plane you have no point getting in".


(*) http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=130923
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2015, 11:17 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedallas View Post
In my view van's should finish their testing and see if it meets the requirements of anticipated loads
There is a huge difference between a structure being designed to take a specific load, and what can happen as a result of many many load cycles spread out over a period of time.

If we could find a person to climb on and off of a step all day long every day for a month, we might be able to test it to a level required to know what the long term durability is.

That is the context of pretty much all of the problems that have developed with the RV-12 (and other RV models as well). They are issues that show up with time in service. When they show up, attempts have been made to rectify them. This is pretty normal with any airplane that was ever designed.

The red prototype (N412RV) now has over 1600 hrs on it. It is carefully monitored to watch for the development of issues and a few SB's have been issued over the years based on that info. There has not been cracking of the steps like others have experienced (even though it gets probably a much higher level of entries/exits per flight hour than any other RV-12), but based on service history in the field, the step design is being reviewed.
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  #26  
Old 11-18-2015, 12:08 PM
todehnal todehnal is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky Lakes area in KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedFrog View Post
After two years of getting in and out I could not remember the details of how I proceed after reading this thread. Yesterday I did my exit in slow motion and mindfully. What I noticed is while facing the back with two feet on the wing, I grab the roll bar with my left hand and lower myself slowly to bring my left foot on the step. This allows to load the step progressively and prevents the dynamic load mentioned earlier. Only when my left foot bears all my weight do I release my hold on the roll bar to bring my right foot on the ground.

I am tempted to suggest that VANs include such instruction in the pilot hand book but, after a previous thread (*) answer I expect to be told that "if you are not able to get out of the plane you have no point getting in".


(*) http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=130923
I finally found the Van's documented recommended method for entering an RV-12. It is what we use, and it works very well without adding extra Gs to the step. It is listed in your Flight Training Supplement. Check your manual for additional methods, but this works for for us. It does take a few tries to get comfortable with it, but it is worth the trouble. As they say, when all else fails, read the manual!! Here it is:

Revision: 2 Date: 04/03/14
RV-12 Flight Training Supplement 5-3
ENTRY & EXIT TECHNIQUE How to get in & out. Entry method 1: Stand just forward of the wing leading edge facing the cabin. Step up onto the boarding step with your leg that is closest to the front of the aircraft. Place the hand closest to the rear of the aircraft onto the roll bar. Bring your other leg over the cabin deck and place your foot on the non-skid area just forward of the seat. Then move your foot from the step to just forward of the seat and then sit in the seat.
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1989- RV-6 tail kit, built and sold

Last edited by todehnal : 11-18-2015 at 12:11 PM.
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  #27  
Old 11-18-2015, 01:37 PM
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WingedFrog WingedFrog is offline
 
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todehnal View Post
I finally found the Van's documented recommended method for entering an RV-12. It is what we use, and it works very well without adding extra Gs to the step. It is listed in your Flight Training Supplement. Check your manual for additional methods, but this works for for us. It does take a few tries to get comfortable with it, but it is worth the trouble. As they say, when all else fails, read the manual!! Here it is:

Revision: 2 Date: 04/03/14
RV-12 Flight Training Supplement 5-3
ENTRY & EXIT TECHNIQUE How to get in & out. Entry method 1: Stand just forward of the wing leading edge facing the cabin. Step up onto the boarding step with your leg that is closest to the front of the aircraft. Place the hand closest to the rear of the aircraft onto the roll bar. Bring your other leg over the cabin deck and place your foot on the non-skid area just forward of the seat. Then move your foot from the step to just forward of the seat and then sit in the seat.
I had no knowledge (my mistake) of this document full of interesting tips. Thanks for your research and finding, another one to put on VAF's credit.
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  #28  
Old 11-18-2015, 02:11 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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I believe it is provided to all builders in the documentation package with the Maint. Manual, PAP, and other documents.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #29  
Old 11-18-2015, 07:20 PM
Bob Kibby Bob Kibby is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 127
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How does it make any difference in the load on the step if you exit directly from the cockpit to the step or the wing to the Step? I'm not talking about jumping from one to another but a normal transition of the load from one foot to the other. Doesn't pass the smell test for me that it makes any difference.
Bob Kibby N712BK
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  #30  
Old 11-18-2015, 08:57 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kibby View Post
How does it make any difference in the load on the step if you exit directly from the cockpit to the step or the wing to the Step?
It doesn't.

That procedure isn't in the flight training supplement because it is the least abusive on the steps, it is there because it is one way that works. A process needed to be described for the document and that is the one that the author chose.
It is not the one that I (and other pilots I know) use.....
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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