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11-05-2015, 07:23 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrollF4
I disagree. ALWAYS break into the threat. In this case, a right break with chaff and flares into the bandit Mooney, in plane, but prepared to immediately and violently rudder out of plane if he attempts a guns track or snapshot. But then I too would anticipate an overshoot reversal opportunity if he doesn't arrest his energy surplus. Like you said, if his fangs are out, be ready for a rolling scissors. If he extends, he's giving you his 6, but your WEZ will be momentary: His energy advantage will set up his separation. 
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For sure. Re-reading, I wasn't very clear - the roll would happen after the break not instead of. And it's also dependent on how close-in the bandit is. If the Mooney is two turn radii away, that's a different scenario than if he's 1000yds out of course.
I hadn't considered chaff/flares at all, which could be fatal depending on what the Mooney was armed with 
__________________
Brad Benson, Maplewood MN.
RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
If you're not making mistakes, you're probably not making anything
Last edited by ChiefPilot : 11-05-2015 at 11:41 AM.
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11-05-2015, 07:30 AM
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Moderator, Asst. Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 1,473
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If you can meet him neutral, you may have the chance to assess his energy then decide on a one- vs two-circle fight. Your RV's wide max-G maneuvering range makes it a natural for the radius fight if he decides to engage (the Mooney bandit will be a rate fighter).
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Scroll
Sid "Scroll" Mayeux, Col, USAF (ret)
52F NW Regional/Aero Valley Airport, Roanoke TX (home of DR's Van Cave)
"KELLI GIRL" N260KM RV-7A tipper
Catch her on YouTube's "Because I Fly!" channel
Exemption waived.
Proud and grateful 2020 -=VAF=- Contributor
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11-05-2015, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828
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Goose, I'm bringing him in closer, ( your doing WHAT?) I'll hit the breaks and he will fly right by!
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7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
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11-05-2015, 07:51 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hopkinsville, KY
Posts: 957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo
Flight following could have helped and way cheaper than ADS-B. 
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My understanding is come 2020 if you do not have ADSB Out you will no longer be able to use flight following.
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Bobby Hester - Builder/Pilot/A&P
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
N857BH RV7A XP-O360 - Garmin G3X ADS-B IN/OUT 2020 Compliant
Web site: http://www.newtech.com/bobbyhester/RVSite.htm
Dec. 2019 VAF donator - alot better than any magazine subscription
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11-05-2015, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lake Country, B.C. Canada
Posts: 2,416
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DR, are you on? we need a new Forum - TACTICS!
this is great stuff! although most goes right over my head, it's amazing to read what goes thru the minds of those who are truly trained in 'situational awareness'.
The real take-away, is that some of the mindset and skills that will save your bacon in a situation with 'guns', also is very applicable ( energy, vector, radii, etc.) in a dangerous VFR close encounter!
thanks guys! ( even those Mooney bandits!...gotta have a target, right?)
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Perry Y.
RV-9a - SOLD!....
Lake Country, BC
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11-05-2015, 08:06 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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I had a Cessna appear in the windshield the other morning at my 1 O'clock. The Zaon had chirped, indicating 3 miles (note: Zaon units are REALLY bad at assessing distance) and then blinked off, only to blink back on at about the same time it appeared less than a quarter mile away.
I always get mad at myself when I don't pick up the traffic, but I get more angry when I think that AGAIN, I didn't bother picking up flight following for a short flight. And I LIKE talking to MSP controllers.
As for Brad, well, it amazes me sometimes he ever got a first date. 
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11-05-2015, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I have had plenty of near misses while on flight following. ...Like "less than 100 feet, evasive action required" near misses. FF is a great tool, but don't relax your scan just because you think the guy on the ground "has your six"... Because he doesn't.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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11-05-2015, 08:34 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1963
this is great stuff! although most goes right over my head, it's amazing to read what goes thru the minds of those who are truly trained in 'situational awareness'.
The real take-away, is that some of the mindset and skills that will save your bacon in a situation with 'guns', also is very applicable ( energy, vector, radii, etc.) in a dangerous VFR close encounter!
thanks guys! ( even those Mooney bandits!...gotta have a target, right?)
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I think my instincts to roll right ASAP with him rolling in at 4-5 o'clock were correct but beyond that he had me. I may have slipped away as he appeared to be an overshoot to the left. I followed him a ways until he did a sharp left turn, I had no desire to tangle so did likewise to the right and departed the area.
Many years ago I was trained in the F-86L in all weather intercept, mostly night IFR type flying under radar control. We had one lesson on day fighter tactics - and that probably was thrown in because our flight commander had been a fighter pilot in Korea in F-80's and the 86. He was lead in that lesson which was nothing compared to what day fighter guys experienced, a roll in from perch and as he commented on my effort, good job you rolled your socks down on that one.
What really matters today, in our environment, is the same as always, see and be seen - preferably to see before being seen. It is so important!! The aids we have with flight following, ADS-B and whatever else there is are great but there is no substitute for situational awareness and a visual scan IMHO.
Long live aviators - at least as long as possible. 
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
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11-05-2015, 09:33 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator
Xaon or Zaon is dead, out of business, only collision avoidance devices with ACS and Sporty's are ADS-B. Will check out Monroy, I've used the other and it is better than nothing.
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The Xaon XRX is really quite good at detecting traffic. Presently I am running a Xaon XRX on my GRT moving map while running a Garmin GDL-39 on my 695 GPS. The Xaon almost always reports traffic long before the GDL-39 does ( if it ever does).
I don't think I would disregard buying a used Xaon unit. I have seen several for sale on this forum in the past few months. I know the company is out of business but as long as the unit is operational I cannot see why it would not continue working for many many years. The electronics in the unit really don't care that the manufacturer is no longer making new ones. It will still work as long as electricity and data signals flow through it.
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11-05-2015, 10:55 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 141
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Trolling anyone?
Troll the guy. If he had missiles you'd already be toast or he's just a 'gunner'. Max power and turn into him with just enough 'G' to prevent a firing solution. Trade off some altitude to maintain your energy. He'll think you haven't seen him. If he dissipates energy (slows down) to saddle up for the shot, you can then apply the rest of your available 'G' to force an overshoot. Now it's your turn!! If he keeps his energy and pitches up (high yo-yo) it may be time to 'bugout' while he is nose high. A high wing (C-180) vs low wing (Mooney) in a turning fight is not a good idea. Always watch out for dash 2!
****This all is assuming his aircraft has a performance advantage.
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Restored and Flying '58 C-180A
Retired Vietnam Marine
2017 dues paid
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