RV-10 with 600HP... you decide.. - Page 3

Brian Denk · #21 02-01-2007, 06:59 PM

I guess "Predator" is a most appropriate name in this instance. Somebody outta go to jail over this.

RV10Hopeful · #22 02-01-2007, 07:11 PM

I sent the seller the question of would he be willing to sell the 10 kit seperate from the engine. I think and mentioned this to him that he should be able to sell the engine for more by itself then with the kit.

TSwezey · #23 02-01-2007, 08:00 PM

RV10Hopeful,
I don't think this seller knows his ssa from his elbow! The pictures look like staged pictures to get a draw. I would stay far away from this project!!! I don't care how cheap you can get it....Save yourself the agony! Everything is just clecoed together to make it look like something has been done. This project is about 2% done!! Everything is stored four hours away from him. I don't think he knows what is there and what isn't. I don't see any pictures of the "completed" wings or vertcial, horizontal, elevators! The black plane was on the cover of Kitplanes or one of those about 2 or 3 years ago. Buy a kit from Van's or someone else but don't buy this one!

SteinAir · #24 02-01-2007, 08:57 PM

I'm afraid Todd is spot on right about this plane and story. Having dealt with this mess myself (as the supplier of avionics for "both" planes) just about everything he said is 100% accurate. I was at one point right in the middle of this mess, but luckily didn't lose much money (but I did lose some).

The sad thing is the other guy is out a TON of money and has little/nothing to show for it. The circumstances surrounding this abortion and it's aftermath are unbelievable, and until my own recent experience losing a HUGE PILE of money because of another terrible debacle (D2A), this was the worst one I'd seen in awhile. How this stuff continues to happen in our industry is beyond me. It's shamefull and unexcuseable.

Regards,
Stein.

RV6, Minneapolis
P.S., I could build a very nice RV10 if I wasn't 'repurchasing' EFIS's & Avionics all over again

sadams · #25 02-02-2007, 05:56 AM

I can venture a guess as to how this continues to happen. It would never happen to this extent with a legit builder involved in building an airplane. It happens because there are too many people with a lot of money who want a nice experimental like the RV-10 and hire someone to build it for them. When you do this, by definition you are already dealing with people (both "builder" and hired gun) who are of questionable character. It is no surprise to me that a number of the people involved would be out to take your money, not build an airplane. It's obvious in this case that this guy selling the plane was sold a pile of BS and seems to actually believe all the performance numbers that he was sold. However, I have absolutely no sympathy for him. When you are willing to cross the line and break all the rules, you deserve what you get. He should be happy it was never finished because it would have probably killed him. The unfortunate thing is that honest people like Stein get sucked into the mess and and are the true victims here.

ddurakovich · #26 02-02-2007, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadams

When you are willing to cross the line and break all the rules, you deserve what you get. He should be happy it was never finished because it would have probably killed him.

Or just too gullible to know the difference!

I don't see this as much different than the Nigerian banking scam, the found money scam, etc, etc., etc.

Unfortuneately, how does the novice tell the difference between between the claims of a predator as opposed to those of a Rocket designer/builder, a Dave Anders, or any one of the other guys out there doing real design analysis and modification, looking at flutter, etc.?

I don't personally feel anyone "deserves" to get screwed, but that doesn't mean I feel particularly sorry for them either! Especially when it appears that they might reverse their roles from being the screwee to the screwer!

Obviously the old adage still applies: "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is"

David-aviator · #27 02-02-2007, 07:22 AM

600 HP in front of a RV.....make a nice mall exhibit.

Without a thorough structural analysis, flying it would not be smart.

jcoloccia · #28 02-02-2007, 07:28 AM

Easy to solve. Either buy through a reputable dealer (Stein, Stark....even ACS), or demand delivery within 30 days of full payment and put it on your credit card. If the goods don't show on day 29, call your card company and report the charge as fradulent. This has happened to me twice where I've been scammed and was able to recoup my losses like this. I was young and stupid but at least one or two neurons were still firing.

Payment in full well in advance if delivery is rarely a good thing. It typically means that either the company is in financial trouble and is playing a shell game (someone will eventually get stuck holding the ball), or you're paying for their R&D. Why would you pay for another companie's R&D? Are you an investor? Do you get stock in the company or profit sharing later on? Ridiculous but people do it.

sadams · #29 02-02-2007, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddurakovich

Unfortuneately, how does the novice tell the difference between between the claims of a predator as opposed to those of a Rocket designer/builder, a Dave Anders, or any one of the other guys out there doing real design analysis and modification, looking at flutter, etc.?

:

Sure there are a lot of people out there, ligit and otherwise, touting their various engines or airframe upgrades. My point is that a true builder is actively involved in building his/her plane. They actively research and evaluate the various options. Through the building process they acquire a base of knowledge that helps them to sort reality from hype. Through Vans, the EAA, and various support networks like the VAF they ask for and recieve a lot of advise about the project. It is not all correct, but it is diverse and not a one man sales pitch. Knowledge is power, and when you are no more involved in the project than writing checks, you are simply a mark waiting to be duped.

TSwezey · #30 02-02-2007, 07:46 AM

Again this seller is clueless. From what I learned from Vesta (Who was going to be the engine modifier) was that they were going to put a LS2 in the airplane. The LS2 is rated for about 300HP. I don't know if Predator told them that they were getting an LS7. The LS2 conversion is real and should be at my place with two weeks. I went to NJ and saw the completed conversion three days ago. Jan 2007 Sport Aviation has an article about a Seabee with a Robinson LS6 conversion. The LS7 conversion for the RV-10 is just plain stupid. To heavy, to much power. This seller also said he had a 92" prop. The length of a prop would most likely hit the ground. I doub't there is even a LS7 in the crate. I don't think this seller has a clue about airplanes and I am sure glad I don't fly anywhere around where he lives. I don't feel that sorry for the seller but I think Chris Opperheim should be held responsible. I don't understand why he had to do this. I am sure these suckers were paying him good money!