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  #1  
Old 10-06-2015, 07:36 PM
garyr78 garyr78 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Carlsbad, ca
Posts: 49
Default A few RV-12 questions

I may be asking a number of inane questions, but it is because I am convinced that I want to build an RV-12 and being an Engineer I tend to over analyze things before I make a decision.

Q1: Is my understanding correct that one really does not need to keep a build log for the RV-12 ELSA, since one has to take the 16 hour maintenance course regardless, to be able to do Condition Inspections?

Q2: My unscientific analysis of the last year of RV-12 postings and review of builder's websites that have completed and are flying their planes, seems to show that RV-12 owners tend to fly more hours per year than typical RV owners. Is this true or am I delusional?

Q3: I've reviewed a number of build logs and web sites where the builders have completed their RV-12s in 12-14 months. Is this atypical or reasonable. I have a full time job but can easily put 20 hours per week into the build so by my calculations it seems realistic. I'd like to finish it in time to fly it to Oshkosh 2017.

Q4: Does it make sense to order the empennage and wing kit at the same time?

Thanks.
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Gary R.
RV-12iS Empennage complete, wing kit on order
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:02 PM
Walt Shipley Walt Shipley is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chuckey, TN
Posts: 82
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Gary, I can't answer your first two questions because I built my 12 as an EAB,
and I really don't know if 12 owners fly more than the other model owners. I don't fly my 12 as much as I did my 8, but it was aerobatic and I loved doing some simple maneuvers.

As for your third question about build time, I finished my very basic 12 (No
wheel fairings, lights or paint, in about 800 hours.

With question four, my feeling is that you should just buy the empennage at
first to see if building a plane is really your kind of thing. It's relatively easy build, but building any plane is not something to be taken lightly.

Walt Shipley

RV8, RV8A, RV12
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:15 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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The reason you don't need a builder log is because you will sign an affidavit saying it was built to factory specs and you don't need to prove that you built it. My 12 took about 750 hrs to build without paint, but it was my fourth project and I have a fully equipped shop. Working in cramped quarters with limited tools and no previous building experience could easily add 50% to the build time.

I don't know what others do, but having an RV-12 makes flying much more affordable than my Cherokee, so my flying hours have increased.
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:26 PM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
Posts: 3,070
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1. It depends on how you intend to register the plane, as E-AB YES, as E-LSA NO. Either way, just write the date next to each step as you complete it. That will be your log. Take pictures periodically of you working on various sub kits.

2. Who knows?

3. One year is possible. But tell everyone that it will take 2 years. If you finish early, it will make you look good.

4. The wings go together very quickly and you will be waiting for the next kit. The fuselage will take longer than expected because there are so many parts. Ordering more than one kit at a time will save shipping cost.
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RV-12 Flying
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  #5  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:50 PM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Port Orange, Fl
Posts: 931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyr78 View Post
...

Q4: Does it make sense to order the empennage and wing kit at the same time?
If I were doing it again, I'd order everything except the avionics and engine at the same time. I spent a lot of time waiting for delivery of my next kit. Empennage and wings build very quickly, fuselage & Finish not so much so
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Tom
Port Orange, Fl
EAA #51411
RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015; 700 hrs as of 02/2020
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project; first flight 05/18/2019
SPA Panther N26TK; First Flight 03/13/2020
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2015, 08:58 PM
garyr78 garyr78 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Carlsbad, ca
Posts: 49
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Tom, I got a kick out of your build photo album, especially your twiddling thumbs pictures. Really drives home your point about wasting time waiting for kits to arrive.
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Gary R.
RV-12iS Empennage complete, wing kit on order
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2015, 09:01 PM
rv9builder rv9builder is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 873
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Gary, Check your private messages.
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Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold

VAF donation made for 2020
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2015, 10:09 PM
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XOverZero XOverZero is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 416
Default Get connected

Hey, Gary...there are easily a dozen or more RV-12s flying or being built within an hour's drive of Carlsbad. Mark (rv9builder) is one of the more recent additions. You have all the answers you'll need at your call by hooking up. Contact either Mark or I via PM and we'll get you in the loop.
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John Halcrow
Tustin, CA
RV-12 120682
Emp/TC done; Wings done; Fuse kit done

"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives." --Abba Eban
Paid up until Aug 2021
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2015, 10:41 PM
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XOverZero XOverZero is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 416
Default to answer...

My answers (FWIW) to your specific questions are:

Q1: Not required for ELSA, but for me, why wouldn?t I want to document a project that?s the culmination of a lifelong dream? Nothing real formal, but enough to bind up into a coffee table book after the build is done. Side note?there are FAA inspectors at large who still don?t have the complete picture. Some -12 builders have been asked to produce the standard proof of 51%. Even if I had it to offer, I wouldn?t, so as not to legitimize a demand that?s contrary to the regs.

Q2: Can?t answer that?still building, but some -12 buddies sure enjoy flying theirs, and seem to do so at any excuse.

Q3: The factory published 700 to 900 hours has been well validated.

Q4: Order as many airframe kits as you have storage room to handle them. You?ll need quite a lot of either square footage if you keep the parts in the crates until use, or a lot of shelving if you don?t. Added up side is if you have three or four big crates shipping at one time you might be able to arrange the delivery by Partain?s. That?s the best insurance against having your airplane parts being trashed in a freight dock forklift hockey session.
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John Halcrow
Tustin, CA
RV-12 120682
Emp/TC done; Wings done; Fuse kit done

"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives." --Abba Eban
Paid up until Aug 2021
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2015, 09:39 AM
garyr78 garyr78 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Carlsbad, ca
Posts: 49
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Thank you John, I sent you and Mark an email.
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Gary R.
RV-12iS Empennage complete, wing kit on order
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