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09-24-2015, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Prosser,WA
Posts: 272
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This post triggered my memory inflight
Flying today on three one hour legs. On second leg right over Class B Seattle our Transponder trips on VPX..Easy reset and continue on flight. 20 min later on final approach to land it trips again..thought it very odd but was on final so landed. Tested on ground and all seemed ok. Thought maybe power down had reset the problem maybe...during run up all seemed good and all engine instruments in green. On takeoff the transponder trips again...this time I saw erratic amp reading briefly. Stabilized from takeoff and reset transponder...then saw alt amps drop to zero...Bryans post came to memory and I switched to backup alternator. Amperage stabilized and transponder remained on in last hour leg. What you think I have a bad main alternator? But the point is Bryan posted this info helped me inflight to overcome the issue with no stress. Thanks for VAF and Bryan! who would of thought a transponder trip would indicate a failing alternator?
__________________
Jack Maljaars
Rv10
N819DJ flying. 350hrs +
Dues 2015 pd
Last edited by Jackm : 09-24-2015 at 10:15 PM.
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09-25-2015, 05:40 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackm
Flying today on three one hour legs. On second leg right over Class B Seattle our Transponder trips on VPX..Easy reset and continue on flight. 20 min later on final approach to land it trips again..thought it very odd but was on final so landed. Tested on ground and all seemed ok. Thought maybe power down had reset the problem maybe...during run up all seemed good and all engine instruments in green. On takeoff the transponder trips again...this time I saw erratic amp reading briefly. Stabilized from takeoff and reset transponder...then saw alt amps drop to zero...Bryans post came to memory and I switched to backup alternator. Amperage stabilized and transponder remained on in last hour leg. What you think I have a bad main alternator? But the point is Bryan posted this info helped me inflight to overcome the issue with no stress. Thanks for VAF and Bryan! who would of thought a transponder trip would indicate a failing alternator?
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The main alternator would be a good place to start. If it is a PP, then check the plug, the are failure points, as are broken stator wires. The plug is hard to check, so see DanH's "Fooled me" thread. If that is good, then I would remove the alternator and take it to an alternator shop (I would take it apart my self actually) and check to see if all three phases are working. That takes an oscilloscope. You might be able to measure the AC content, but if that means nothing, take it to the shop.
Thinking to Self - My brand new PP is beginning to worry me now with all these early hour issues. Lets see - OTS - $100, PP - $500 - B&C - $1000. Hmmmm. Add OVP and $100 is looking better all the time. Just replace every 200 hrs and golden. Or have a spare and dissemble and refurbish every 200 hrs and swap. Wonder what it costs to have the rotor balanced?? back to work.
Edit: The B&C web site had an error - the 60A alternator is not ~$1000 - - it is $530 plus $175 external regulator. (voltage adjustable and with OVP). I see a possible B&C in my future.
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
Last edited by BillL : 09-25-2015 at 03:49 PM.
Reason: Correction of the price for the record.
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09-25-2015, 06:15 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Just to set the facts straight:
The new B&C 60 amp BC460-H is $530 and the reg is $175 = $705
The 40 amp unit (which is what I use) is $379 + $175 = $554
Other than a little extra work to install the regulator it seems like a no brainer to me 
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
Last edited by Walt : 09-25-2015 at 06:17 AM.
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09-25-2015, 08:46 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 1,958
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Hybrid Approach
It's not difficult at all to take an off-the-shelf auto parts store alternator (just about any 60A Nippondenso will do, my particular preference is a Lester 14757 for a 1985 Civic), change out the pulley and swap the regulator for a terminal block, and then purchase a high-quality B&C regulator with over-voltage protection to drive it. Mine works great!
__________________
Kurt W.
RV9A
FLYING!!!
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09-25-2015, 02:38 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
Just to set the facts straight:
The new B&C 60 amp BC460-H is $530 and the reg is $175 = $705
The 40 amp unit (which is what I use) is $379 + $175 = $554
Other than a little extra work to install the regulator it seems like a no brainer to me 
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Yeah - facts - - just to be clear, here is the check out basket and it is for one alternator - so either the website is wrong or something else, but the number I posted was not arbitrary.
Well, I called B&C and it is indeed $530, in spite of the screen capture below. We discussed the shopping cart price and he will have the web guys address that. But it gets better - they have a sale on this alternator bundled with the regulator for $595 right now. $110 off individual prices. So, apparently I am not an idiot (at least this time).
Edit: The B&C guy just called me back to thank me for finding the glitch - the special is about to end but will be back soon. Also for you EarthX people, the external regulator is adjustable and perfect for the LiFePo4 batteries! - - Yes, Walt - it is truly a NO BRAINER -

__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
Last edited by BillL : 09-25-2015 at 04:06 PM.
Reason: added information
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09-26-2015, 02:59 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 70
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in reply to the PP alternator issue
As I already posted in another thread related to PlanePower alternator failures, my PP alternator also failed at 250 hrs after some intermittent on/off behaviour during a short flight.
The cause was broken stator wires, exactly as reported by many others here.
Although the Hartzell people always tell you it's because of some vibration or misalignment issue, IMHO there may be a contributing factor in the way the alternator is designed. The stator wires are short, rigid solid-copper wires that go from the stator windings (where they are epoxied/waxed together with the rest of the winding) to the contacts, where they are secured with screws. Short and rigid + vibration = early failure.
I agree with RocketBob that after receiving dozens of reports of broken wires, the Company "aviation specialists" could have replaced them with either braided copper or built some tension relief to mitigate the problem. Especially when we pay north of 500$ for a part that has no improved durability compared to a 80$ stock car alternator.
__________________
Giovanni
RV7-A - Flying!
Pittsburgh, PA
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09-26-2015, 03:24 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio KHAO
Posts: 128
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in reply to the PP alternator issue
Also had a PP alternator failure w/remote regulator( @20 hrs ) on rebuilt O360.
I believe this may have been my fault though. I put an incorrect service loop on the #6 output wire stud that caused the nut to come loose (plus very low PP torque value). A bad service loop design(me). Flying along, service loop vibrated, loosened the nut creating a noise in the headphones that sounded like WWII submarine pings of the sonar. About two hours later .. Where is this noise coming from? Then zero amps....Now I know! The 35amp arcing caused the noise, nut melted off from heat. Cost about $200 by PP with shipping two ways. So far all is good now at 100hrs.
John
__________________
John R Prince
RV-7 want-a-b
Dues Paid for 20
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09-28-2015, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Mounts
And just to add to the discussion, alternator mounts should also be considered.
All below are for older "Case Mount" alternators.
A comparison of the thickness of the Lycoming part (top) and Vans part -
The mount provided with the B&C alternator -

__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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09-28-2015, 02:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Big Sandy, WY
Posts: 2,567
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Like in the old Sears catalog. Good, better, best.
__________________
Actual repeat offender.
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08-03-2017, 09:22 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hastings, MN
Posts: 582
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Bryan,
Thanks for the detailed writeup. I'm starting to have a VERY similar issue to the one you had, and my electrical system is pretty much the same (PP60, VPX, etc)
This gives me a huge head start in the troubleshooting process!
Ed
__________________
Ed Kranz
RV-10 N829EC - Flying
First Flight: 8/29/15
KSGS - Fleming Field, South Saint Paul, Minnesota
YouTube.com/GoodPlaneLiving -- Build Timelapse and Travel Videos . . GoodPlaneLiving.com -- Build and Travel Blog
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