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  #1  
Old 09-21-2015, 10:05 PM
fabricflyer fabricflyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tylertown, MS
Posts: 186
Default Inside firewall insulation

What are you guys using out there (if anything) for inside firewall insulation? Has anyone used, or familiar with, Koolmat heat barrier?

Thanks Allen
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2015, 10:39 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
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Bare stainless on the inside of a firewall is the safe choice. Insulation goes on the engine side.

Use the search function. I'm not guessing.

Oh, yeah, Koolmat....bad idea.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...6&postcount=18

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...7&postcount=19
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Last edited by DanH : 09-21-2015 at 10:42 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2015, 06:09 PM
RVTOY RVTOY is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Corona , Ca
Posts: 139
Default Firewall insulation

I was not thinking when doing motor side of firewall to add insulation. My plane is parked in a desert atmosphere. HOT!! With all the things connected to motor side of firewall I went with double sided insulated foil on inside and worked out great. Always clean but a stand on your head to install. Aircraft Spruce p/n 09-06015 and high temp RTV and your set. Don't smear the hole thing, just put daps to hold in position. Over 40 hrs to date on insulation and it looks like new. 4x3' sheet will work but you can't make a mistake so order a little longer piece. Oh, and I cut out where angles are so it's slice and dice.
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  #4  
Old 09-22-2015, 06:28 PM
RVTOY RVTOY is offline
 
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Posts: 139
Default Firewall insulation

Dan H. Is correct and I would never ever argue with him. This was just my solution rather than tackling motor side of firewall.
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RV7A flying
Kitfox 7 completed 2009. Lost in 2010 KJOA Flood. New Airworthiness cert. 6/8/2018
Always an upgrade in progress.
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  #5  
Old 09-22-2015, 07:03 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Location: 08A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVTOY View Post
With all the things connected to motor side of firewall I went with double sided insulated foil on inside and worked out great. Always clean but a stand on your head to install. Aircraft Spruce p/n 09-06015 and high temp RTV and your set.
If I understand correctly, you've installed "Ultra Touch Natural Cotton Radiant Barrier" on the cabin side of a firewall?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...9-06014tds.pdf

I have not tested this particular material, but I would be happy to make a small wager about its hot firewall performance. I don't think it will last 30 seconds without open flame on the cockpit side.
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  #6  
Old 09-22-2015, 09:57 PM
SMRacer SMRacer is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 551
Default Huh?

This sounds like a discussion between a couple politicians. All kinds of "you can't do that", but nothing about what you CAN or SHOULD do. Care to enlighten us?

And like some others here, it's really too late for me to address the engine side of this problem, but I'd like to find something to apply to the cockpit side of the firewall.

Thanks,

Jim
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  #7  
Old 09-23-2015, 05:54 AM
mdevans9 mdevans9 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hockessin,Delaware
Posts: 199
Default See Post 2

Jim,

Dan has done extensive testing of all sorts of materials generally used on the firewall to reduce heat transmission to the cockpit. Please see his post above and follow the threads for the real story of science as it applies to this subject.

Best regards,

Merrill
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  #8  
Old 09-23-2015, 07:59 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Jim,

Some years ago I was working a mid-engine design project with a friend. Since the main spar passed through the engine bay, we got curious about fire protection. I did the reading, built a burn test rig, etc. Later, when building my RV-8, I threw together another burn rig and started exploring how to insulate a conventional sheet metal firewall.

Just a little later, a VAF reader asked what sort of glue to use to attach a particular firewall insulation in his project. Read the ensuing conversations here:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=37012

Turned out the very popular "firewall insulation" was actually polyester fiber. The vendor had done no due diligence before selling the stuff to builders.

A great many products being offered as firewall insulation are entirely unsuitable for a cockpit-side application. Given a typical fuel-fed fire, they will not protect the occupants, but rather, will contribute to their injury. Placing plastic, rubber, paint, or flammable fibers in contact with a red hot firewall is an invitation to the Darwin Awards.

The ironic fact is this: In the end, after much test and measurement, and by a large margin, no cockpit-side insulation scheme was as effective as insulating the entire firewall structure from the engine side...and practically nothing a builder can do to the engine side can cause injury. The above applies to both comfort insulation as well as fire protection insulation.

What do I suggest? I've posted specifics previously. Best to use the search function, because there is much to learn.

As for "Too late to insulate the engine side", well, would it be too late to install a skipped bolt, or a missed rivet, or update your panel later, or pull a tank to fix a leak? Anything worth doing is worth doing right...and you might be interested to know I pulled my own engine and mount off the firewall, as a unit, to install my own insulation. The test results were that significant.

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Last edited by DanH : 09-23-2015 at 08:35 AM.
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  #9  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:28 AM
philb philb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 171
Default

It took me one full day to remove my engine and engine mount, install stainless foil/fiberfrax sandwich, refigure pass throughs, and secure/seal exactly as in Dan's picture above. Half day to rehang mount and engine, reattach what firewall hardware I'd completed to that point.

Dan's testing and suggestions really swayed me- small price to pay, if only to sleep better at night, let alone have a better chance at surviving if god forbid something bad happens.

Between firewalls and fiberglass, there's evidence, not anecdotes behind Dan's suggestions.
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  #10  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:33 AM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
Default Proseal

Dan
I've followed your test threads during my build process and plan to use your technique. Thanks for all the hard work.

I do have a question.
I see Proseal used between the skin and firewall flange. Why?
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