An Unforeseen Journey - Page 3

Bill Boyd · #21 09-01-2015, 07:14 AM

but I took yesterday off and gotta get back to salt mines. Yesterday's mechanical difficulties are no excuse! Wife's pix to the rescue.

Contractor says yesterday's malfunction came at the best possible time - before the "pick" started. If they'd had a unit on the cable when the O-ring went. it could've really set us back another two months while the demolished basement and house were re-built. Time to sweat-out the mission, I guess...

-Stormy

wilddog · #22 09-01-2015, 07:30 AM

If you want to use wood, go with a wood stove supplementing some other heat source. The wood stove will keep your house warm and most days with one or two loads. And if you leave you can use the other heat source. I see you are 59, there will come a time when you won't feel like cutting wood for a outside boiler. Propane tankless water heaters work well for hot water needs and you will never run out of hot water with one. They don't use much electricity so a smaller whole house generator will keep the hot water coming when the current goes out.

Build your shop bigger than you think you will ever need! I have seen lots of farm shops and not one person has said " I wish I had made it smaller" but most all wished it was bigger.

Bill

Bill Boyd · #23 09-01-2015, 07:58 AM

Bill, I am 59, but don't plan on getting any older.

Not sure how that's going to work out, though

I already don't get off on chain-sawing and log splitting as much as I did five years ago. Rivet-setting is, I hope, a different matter altogether.

Bill Boyd · #24 09-13-2015, 07:14 AM

The basement floor is poured and the HVAC is in. Soon they will hang drywall. The plan is to enclose everything we can, so that all the runs for electric, compressed air, lighting and HVAC are hidden. Time is upon me to figure out some engineering details, and of course the input of VAF's brightest minds is of the essence.

The 60x40 foot maw you see here will become a lounge, mechanical room, closets, and workshop. The shop floorspace will measure roughly 36x40. Should be large enough; we build RV's in one car garages if we have to, right?

Ceiling height is between 8 and 10 feet, varying with the plenum build-outs for the HVAC duct and DWV plumbing.

I've tried to use the online lighting layout apps. Some don't play well with OS-X. After much web browsing, I believe I'm looking for about 100,000 total lumens well-distributed from multiple luminaries (between 50 and 80!) at a color temp of 5000K. I intend to go the LED route. Lorri despises fluorescent lighting and I want her to feel as at home as possible down here. With the homeowners insurance stroking the checks up to the policy limit, cost is not a primary concern (probably the only time in my life I will ever get to say that.) Ceiling will be white drywall, walls white or light beige drywall, and floor a light color epoxy (color suggestions welcome; I know- no flakes, so I can find my dropped rivets). If JonJay or any of the other lighting experts could give me a quick and dirty estimate of luminary quantity, spacing, and intensity, it would put me way ahead in the acquisition process.

Regarding electrical, we are just going to locate outlets everywhere, including a 220 for welder, etc. I'll include an overhead reel cord close to the center of the shop.

The space is well-insulated and will have its own ductless split HVAC unit.

The plan is to locate the compressor at the far end of the garage, about 75 feet from the center of the shop, indoors, but well away from all living space. My HVAC sub has bid the air lines as part of his total package with the modular home people, and he intends to run 1" black iron pipe into the shop and tee 3/4" from there, giving me a center overhead reel air drop and one on each of two opposite exterior walls, plus an outside air drop for spray painting in the driveway. My question is whether this material is a good choice vs copper or the plastic jacketed aluminum pipe I installed just before the fire happened (RapidAir 3/4" kit). Will rust contamination be an issue? The piping run from the compressor will go up, across and down to eliminate condensation trapping as much as possible. A remote power feed will allow the compressor to be turned on and off from inside the shop.

Thanks for any ideas anyone wants to throw out there. My research on these topics is anything but exhaustive, and I want to do this right - without overthinking it.

-Bill

1001001 · #25 09-13-2015, 08:32 AM

If you put a good dessicant dryer on your air line close to the compressor (after a coalescing filter) you shouldn't have problems with rust as long as you keep up with the dessicant.

I am plumbing my shop with black iron pipe and don't expect problems. Mine will be exposed; since yours will be behind the drywall, why not use plastic tubing?

1001001 · #26 09-13-2015, 08:34 AM

If you put a good dessicant dryer on your air line close to the compressor (after a coalescing filter) you shouldn't have problems with rust as long as you keep up with the dessicant.

I am plumbing my shop with black iron pipe and don't expect problems. Mine will be exposed; since yours will be behind the drywall, why not use plastic tubing?

Don't forget periodic low point vents to blow out any moisture that you might accumulate, no matter what your pipe material.

rv7charlie · #27 09-13-2015, 08:58 AM

I'm certainly no expert, but I'm always looking for better/easier/cheaper alternatives, and a lot of new construction materials can be all of the above.

I'd probably prefer one of the alternatives, though I'd have a hard time paying for copper at today's prices. If everything was going to be run on the surface, where replacement/repair would be simple, the equation might be different.

Black iron does rust pretty easily. (Some of it will likely have rust on/in it when they install it.) Is the installer going to be able to maintain a continuous slope, so any condensate will flow to a drain point, and not puddle in the pipe? It probably won't rust through in the next 20 years, but it will continue to generate rust that will flake off with air flow.

You can always filter at the 'destination' end, but that would mean a filter at every drop.

In the end, would it be any more expensive to use something like PEX-aluminum, since installing rigid iron pipe is so labor intensive? It would minimize the number of joints (failure points for leaks, etc), and minimal risk of corrosion issues. I haven't looked at the RapidAir stuff, but you can get the tubing & fittings at big box stores.

Edit the above; PEX-AL is actually cheaper than black iron. The only downside I can see is it's less 'damage-proof' if someone drills or saws into a wall/ceiling at some point in the future. And with careful planning, you might be able to keep all the joints/fittings outside the wall/ceiling surfaces, for future maintenance purposes. I've always done all my own home maintenance, and I hate having to cut into a finished surface to repair something that's inside a wall/ceiling.

Charlie

XOverZero · #28 09-13-2015, 01:18 PM

Personal preferences will hold sway, understood. Mine, however, would be to run the air lines on the outside of the drywall, since I've never known a system not to develop a minor leak eventually. If it were inside the wall, it might take a while to get noticed and it would cause what otherwise would be a quick fix job to become a major, disruptive repair. The approach is to think about bad things, then design them out.

Sorry about your loss, and it's great to see you making the best of your recovery. I intend to be quite envious of your new shop space.

Bill Boyd · #29 09-13-2015, 04:32 PM

Ceiling height is 9'-9" on the joists, plenums drop it to 8'-5" in places. Floor dimensions 37'x40'.

Any thoughts on best lighting options?

Thanks, guys.

spark68 · #30 09-13-2015, 05:04 PM

Bill,

You are certainly putting some good thought into this build, very impressive.

I've worked in many shops using black iron pipe for air lines. All of them used a filter/water separator at each air drop just before the air chuck. Of course this would be on the exposed side of the drywall to drain the condensate occasionally.

My workshop is plumbed with PVC for the last 12 years. No problems, but it is exposed so if I need to change or repair I can do that. But never a problem and it's inexpensive.

Are you planning on putting in electrical outlets in the ceiling for lights to plug into? It offers flexibility and ability to move lights later if you decide to.