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08-11-2015, 07:42 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 2,326
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I don't want this thread to turn into a game of one-upmanship, but if you don't fly when the winds blowing, you're not going to get much air time. I've been from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and from the UP of Michigan to the Keys and at some point, you will need to land in a crosswind. Although the -12 has a stated maximum CW component of 12 knots, you can land in much higher winds with practice. There is ample rudder control on the 12, you just don't want to get too slow, and you want to keep the nose gear from scrubbing sideways.
Find an airport with multiple runways and go out and have a little fun. I landed ONCE in the 12 with a 25-30 knot cross up in the mountains because I needed fuel. I didn't plan that stop out very well. I didn't bend or break anything but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. (and I am not an exceptionally skilled pilot, just average at best.)
__________________
Randy Pflanzer
Greenwood, IN
www.pflanzer-aviation.com
Paid through 2043!
Lund fishing Boat, 2017, GONE FISHING
RV-12 - Completed 2014, Sold
427 Shelby Cobra - Completed 2012, Sold
F1 EVO - partially completed, Sold
F1 Rocket - Completed 2005, Sold
RV-7A - Partially completed, Sold
RV-6 - Completed 2000, Sold
Long-EZ - Completed 1987, Sold
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08-11-2015, 08:32 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Gloversville, NY
Posts: 1,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotBrent
Wow, you have extraordinary intrinsic flying abilities or an extremely confident CFI to sign you off to solo in an LSA in those conditions... Not a criticism, just an observation. I have about 150 hours in RV-12s and generally avoid flying with gusty cross winds when I can. Just isn't enjoyable in such a light aircraft.
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Ditto those sentiments. I would not even consider signing off a student for first solo in those conditions in ANY airplane, let alone a LS. And you can consider this a criticism if you wish.
__________________
John Peck, CFII, A&P, EAA Tech Counselor, Flight Advisor.
?Master Pilot? Award, UFO Member.
RV-12 N37JP 120176 Flying since 2012.
One Week Wonder Build Team, OSH 2018.
VAF paid through 10/2019.
Last edited by BigJohn : 08-11-2015 at 01:50 PM.
Reason: Typo.
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08-11-2015, 11:57 AM
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Ditto those sentiments. I would not even consider signing off a student for first solo in those conditions in ANY airplane, let alone a LS. And you can consider this a criticism is you wish.
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If this is going to be a hand slapping day then I should never post on this forum.
It's was NOT my first landing in a cross wind, obviously, and I din't think it was that difficult. However, I see where you are coming from. There' a female CFI at the school that wouldn't even do a 6 knot cross wind in this plane.
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08-11-2015, 12:06 PM
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1rocket
I don't want this thread to turn into a game of one-upmanship, but if you don't fly when the winds blowing, you're not going to get much air time. I've been from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and from the UP of Michigan to the Keys and at some point, you will need to land in a crosswind. Although the -12 has a stated maximum CW component of 12 knots, you can land in much higher winds with practice. There is ample rudder control on the 12, you just don't want to get too slow, and you want to keep the nose gear from scrubbing sideways.
Find an airport with multiple runways and go out and have a little fun. I landed ONCE in the 12 with a 25-30 knot cross up in the mountains because I needed fuel. I didn't plan that stop out very well. I didn't bend or break anything but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. (and I am not an exceptionally skilled pilot, just average at best.)
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Exactly. It's far better to be able and not have to than to have to and not be able.
Everyone needs to learn and plan for the worst and hope for the best. I'll bet a lot of people, not just RV12 pilots, will not fly in the rain. (Not talking days with a low ceiling, nor non VFR) I solo'd at a second school (the very next day) in a Cherokee in the rain and all the other students were, "aren't you afraid of the rain? Ceiling was 4500' with 4 miles visibility, what's the problem with the weather?
I feel you need to learn this, accept this, and embrace this and RESPECT this as this is flying. Your going to get up there and the time between take off an and landing things are most likely going to change, and unfortunately not for the best at times.
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08-11-2015, 01:59 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Gloversville, NY
Posts: 1,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik
Exactly. It's far better to be able and not have to than to have to and not be able.
Everyone needs to learn and plan for the worst and hope for the best. I'll bet a lot of people, not just RV12 pilots, will not fly in the rain. (Not talking days with a low ceiling, nor non VFR) I solo'd at a second school (the very next day) in a Cherokee in the rain and all the other students were, "aren't you afraid of the rain? Ceiling was 4500' with 4 miles visibility, what's the problem with the weather?
I feel you need to learn this, accept this, and embrace this and RESPECT this as this is flying. Your going to get up there and the time between take off an and landing things are most likely going to change, and unfortunately not for the best at times.
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I agree. It's a question of timing. Normally we do not seek out those conditions for first solo when student is not very experienced and is probably pretty nervous to start with. Perhaps there were extenuating circumstances in your case. Not slapping hands, just surprised.
__________________
John Peck, CFII, A&P, EAA Tech Counselor, Flight Advisor.
?Master Pilot? Award, UFO Member.
RV-12 N37JP 120176 Flying since 2012.
One Week Wonder Build Team, OSH 2018.
VAF paid through 10/2019.
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08-11-2015, 02:44 PM
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fort Mill SC
Posts: 333
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I don't personally fly my RV-12 in the rain….because it might damage the paint!
I chose sport flying after a career as a professional pilot precisely because I want to fly when it's fun, calm, relatively cool with mostly light winds. This is basically what the sport license encompasses and for which the RV-12 was built.
During my career I've flown in all weathers from CAVOK to Cat IIIB auto land with 600RVR. These days I just like to fly for fun and don't care about rain, fog or extreme crosswinds.
Whilst being able to fly in rain and crosswinds which exceed the POH limitations is okay to a degree…there is no prize for doing it, and certainly no reason to encourage new owners and pilots to do it, especially if their flying experience is more limited.
One bad flight, a poor weather decision, or stretching their personal comfort level and limitations can do a huge disservice to their confidence level and their enjoyment as a new owner and pilot.
Let's not forget that 
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08-12-2015, 06:32 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 9
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well said Top Cat....
Whilst being able to fly in rain and crosswinds which exceed the POH limitations is okay to a degree?there is no prize for doing it, and certainly no reason to encourage new owners and pilots to do it, especially if their flying experience is more limited.
One bad flight, a poor weather decision, or stretching their personal comfort level and limitations can do a huge disservice to their confidence level and their enjoyment as a new owner and pilot.
Let's not forget that  [/quote]
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08-12-2015, 11:46 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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Was the 12G15 the crosswind component or the actual wind at some angle less than 90 to the centerline?
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08-13-2015, 04:05 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Santa Monica, California
Posts: 139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
With SLSA, operating limitations state that "IFR operations are authorized if allowed by the AOI and if the instruments specified in 91.205 are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."
ELSA operating limitations state that "Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in ? 91.205(d) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."
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The RV-12 POH (page 2-2) says "WARNING Flight in IFR/IMC conditions is prohibited." However, the RV-12 isn't offered with IFR instruments. IF the required instruments were added, would Van's issue a POH amendment that authorized IFR operations? I ask, because I know a flight school operator who wants to add a new or late model glass panel airplane to his fleet, but the plane has to be suitable for instrument training in actual IMC -- nothing heavy, just morning low clouds that are common in his (and my) part of the country. I'd love to be able to encourage him to get an RV-12.
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08-13-2015, 04:26 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Welcome to VAF!
Lon, welcome aboard the good ship VAF 
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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