What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Too fat to fly

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
If you read the Sport Aviation profile on me last month, you know that I have a twin brother who singlehandedly made aviation possible for me.

Now that I've built an RV, he deserves a ride.

But there's a problem, he's well over 300 pounds.

This picture, posted on EAA's Facebook page today, caught my eye because here's a large guy working on a light airplane that he probably won't be able to fly (although maybe he will).

And it leads me to wonder if anyone else has been in the situation of wanting terribly to give a severely overweight person a ride, and having to say "you're too obese." Or, in my case, is there a nice way to encourage them to lose enough weight to be able to fly?

And did it work?
 
I had to tread lightly when I had a 6' 6" guy who wanted to take lessons in our Fort Gordon flying club, way back in the 60's. The mechanic was an older guy and when he saw him said, You're too big and heavy for the C-150's, so you'd be better off in the Skyhawk." Then he added..."and I'll check on the seat structure's weight rating", with me just standing there.

We calculated that he wouldn't have enough fuel in the airplane to complete the check ride either, in a 150.

He ended up getting his license in the Skyhawk.

Best,
 
I calculated when I did W& B that I MAYBE could get my brother in if I cut the fuel load way down. But then there's the question of just how much weight the wing ribs under the doubler can take?
 
other considerations......

I too have a few 'plus' size friends ( don't we all?)
a couple of other things that spring to mind....safety being foremost.

- can I really get full right aileron travel with our thighs wedged together?
- can i reach the fire extinguisher between the seats? ( no way in heck!)
- can this guy really egress the cabin in an emergency?
- could I help get him out?
- will the seat bottom, airstep and wing walk survive a poorly placed size 13 shoe?....remember, we are talking 10 times the psi of him 'sitting' in the seat!
- obviously no passenger stick time possible
- will the belts go around him? ( nope, barely fit me at 185)
- cold weather garments will just compound the issue, so no winter ops.

no doubt there are many I haven't thought of......
 
When you own a -4 almost everyone is too fat to fly.

As my hangar mate says... 5'3" and 115lbs blondes are the only ones allowed.
 
5'3" and 115lbs blondes are the only ones allowed

Seems reasonable to me...end of discussion :)

Seriously though, I plan to do a 'round the country barnstorming tour with my -7 when its done--giving rides to family and friends. I've already contemplated this touchy subject for some of my Uncle's...how do you say, you're just too fat?
 
I'm 6'4" and about ~280. While it can be a bit tight, my size 13s don't get in the way. However, i am not particularly "round" so it really depends on body type. I have been up in a couple RV-7s without any problems. As for seat structure, remember that the seat is rated to 6g, so it is not a problem under normal conditions. If they can fit without interfering with the controls and you are within gross and CG it shouldn't be an issue.
 
Last edited:
a couple of other things that spring to mind....safety being foremost.

- can I really get full right aileron travel with our thighs wedged together?
- can i reach the fire extinguisher between the seats? ( no way in heck!)
- can this guy really egress the cabin in an emergency?
- could I help get him out?
- will the seat bottom, airstep and wing walk survive a poorly placed size 13 shoe?....remember, we are talking 10 times the psi of him 'sitting' in the seat!
- obviously no passenger stick time possible
- will the belts go around him? ( nope, barely fit me at 185)
- cold weather garments will just compound the issue, so no winter ops.

no doubt there are many I haven't thought of......

The biggest passenger I had so far is around 250 lb. I found crossing the threshold (side wall) has been a problem for quite a few passengers. Can they lift their foot high enough to get in and out? The test can be done on the ground.

Another concern is the belly size. Is there enough back stick space?
 
RV-6 and 260lb

I took my 260lb 6'5" step-bro in the RV-6. Once. He's not fat -just BIG.

The manual flap handle took careful negotion to operate and he had to be careful to keep his feet off the pedals - on my side. :)

Other than that, with some aileron trim, it worked fine. O-360 at sea level.
 
Bob,

I would say "It depends...."

It depends on how they are built.

As you know I am no small person and I have been able to enjoy my RV safely. I am one of those guys that you wonder how the heck I managed to build this thing. It is a sight to behold to see me get in and out of the tailcone with the seatback brace and flap motor box in place. It is also hard to understand how I have been able to do at least 3 panel upgrades laying upside down and on my back under the panel.

That being said, I know first hand how tight the RV cockpit is for people like me.

My test is simple:

If we can both get in and I can move the stick full range of motion without binding up, then we are good to go. If I cannot get full aft stick or full left or right aileron, it is a no-go.

The W&B seems to be doable in most situations where the above does not become the limiter.

Be aware that your RV will feel a little different on the stick with more weight and it is easier to get behind the lift/drag/power curve with a full load. Just be aware of that...

As for the strength of the seat pans on the RV7....I know for a fact that they can take a passenger of ~300lbs @ 4G's without any damage :D I did my transition training with Jan Bussell in Floriday in his RV6. Jan is no small person (6'2" and ~275) and he and I were able to fit safely in his aircraft.

I can say however that building and flying the RV is one thing that is motivating me to lose weight. If I did not have this hobby, I would most likely either be dead or weigh 500lbs by now. This year I am making a serious effort to lose weight by eating better and moving more. Our company puts a strong emphasis on health and allows me to exercise some at work. So far I am down 10lbs for the year and going strong.

As for your original concern, people that are fat know they are fat. They know there are certain things that they may not be able to do because of their size. If he is too big, use it as motivation to get him to lose weight.
 
At 5-11 and 275, my friend's RV-7 had no trouble hauling my butt (and his, he's not tiny) around with alacrity. That said, I'm not especially "round" either. Getting in and out was not difficult -- if it had been, I wouldn't be building a 7A now. I don't know that I'd want to cram someone much larger than myself into the cockpit though.

I have a few XL and XXL family members. A couple are over 3 bills, and I've had to just tell them I can't take them up unless I rent a bigger airplane. A Cherokee or 172 isn't going to cut it, and an RV would be a tight squeeze. I just tell 'em that with my bulk and theirs combined, it's not going to be possible until one of us drops some weight. I'm on a campaign to drop a significant amount of weight as I build. I'm going to let people know ahead of time what my max passenger weight is, and if they can get below that - great, let's go flying. Otherwise one of us has to stay behind, and I'm the only one who can fly the thing.
 
Ideal weight

Guys,

Check out the Ideal weight charts here on the net, it will frighten you!

Like alot of people I was in denial about my weight, the heaviest I got to was 175lbs, mostly because of eating the wrong things at the wrong time of the day when in the Police ( not donuts british Police don't do donuts) I was shocked when at a scuba diving medical the Doctor said I was borderline obese.

Still, I denial I told myself I was big build, I was muscular and would not face the facts!

Since I have retired I decided I was going to turn my 4 pack into that six pack I had never had. I has been hard work..... but for you guys trying the key is calorie control and moderate exercise to firm the muscles and keep the heart healthy.

I got down to my ideal weight 150 lbs a month ago...... since then with Christmas over eating I have put on 6lbs, but that will go in the next few months.

So, if I can do it..........

Ohhh and I am stronger now than I was with the extra weight, and have good definition....... the key is in dietry control!!

Good luck to all of you trying to loose the excess weight!!
 
Maybe....

I took a rather large friend flying once. I am sure the he weighed over 300 lbs and I am not that small at around 240. I didn't think much about the extra weight as it was a short local flight and I didn't have any baggage and fuel was about half tanks.
As I expected the takeoff took a little longer, but what surprised me was how sluggish the controls seam while flying around. While landing I kept an extra 10 kts on the ASI, just to make sure I had good control for the flare.

Kent
 
I did my transition training with Jan Bussell in Florida in his RV6. Jan is no small person (6'2" and ~275) and he and I were able to fit safely in his aircraft.

Jan has lost a little bit of weight, but he is still 6'2"!

Be sure to add 10-20 pounds to whatever weight the ladies tell you...if you can even get an answer. If I get an "ummm", I usually say 250 is the limit for the plane and watch their reaction. A couple are going to get back to me...

I've had to remove the seatback cushion a couple times to get the seatbelt around a passenger. I have a slab of foam camping pad for those situations.

I was having dinner with the president of a corporate jet company a while back (how I ended up at that table I have no idea). We were discussing the weight reduction efforts on the new design. I said "just put a sign over the entry door saying "no fat chicks allowed", that would save the engineers a lot of grief". I probably should have asked to see pictures of their wives first...
We still got the contract.
 
Build an RV-10 tandem

It would not add anymore than most already spend on upgrades. Ensure the steps are beefed up. Mine could handle 360 up front and 230 in the rear plus baggage.

The problem in the -10 is that stick throw is limited in roll unless your skinny. One can leave the passenger seat slid back to provide more leg room.
 
I find the issue with outsized passengers is getting them out, especially with older folk their knees and hips are also problematic. Have a plan just in case. I usually tell them (a bit brutal I know) I will not be using a can opener.

Vans confirmed no seat limit in my RV-6.
 
The key is persistence

I am 5'7" and was 115kg (253lb) when my Doc gave me the hard word about my size and the prospect of Diabetes. So it was stop eating junk and get sorted! So a complete change was needed, no more refined sugar, if I wanted something sweet it had to be fruit, no more soft drinks, and don't eat late at night. coupled with some moderate walking I have managed to loose 35kg (77lb)

However the thing I really learnt is it is not just the change in habits, it is also the sheer will power to be totally persistent. Don't compromise and don't give up. Just the same qualities we need to finish a home built aircraft!

Jim
 
Offensive?

Bob,

Maybe you could pull the reference to the guy on the EAA site. I thought it a bit offensive that you basically identified him as too fat to fly his plane. Your post really doesn't need that sentence to get the point across.


<edited post per Steve's suggestion to remove the name. The person is identified in the photo, but no need to name him here too.>
 
Last edited:
Hmmmm!

Tony,

Maybe you want to reconsider your post. Until you named the guy in the photo he was just an unknown face to me and I guess many others.......now he has a name.

To be honest before you chimed in I had not even looked at the photo but did when you mentioned a name.

However, your right the point would have been made without the photo and the link.
 
Amazing capability

I have a fat friend who used to own a 150 hp RV-6. He was FAT (still is). He is no more than 5'11" tall & weighs well over 300 lbs. I needed a ride to pick up my -4. I weighed 220 & had to sit sideways to fit. We had full fuel & I think we were surely over gross. I took the ride because he was a very accomplished pilot. He spent the warm months flying the bush in Alaska & wintered in south Texas.

We flew off a grass strip & went about 60 miles. NO PROBLEMO!! Smooth as silk. The -6 & his skills made it a non event. :D I've always thought highly of the -6 since then. I loved to watch him loop & roll it (me on the ground).

But, being grossly overweight takes its toll & he no longer flies. The excess weight compounds several medical issues.

...where was I going with this??:confused: OH YES, you would be amazed at how much horseflesh you can pack into a side by side RV & it perform very well:) Thinking about what I would have done had it been my -6 and he asked me for a ride ...I'm honestly ashamed to say I don't know. Knowing my -6 would be a big factor. It would be like hauling a walrus, with all due respects. Well, the big dude is a far more capable airman than me.

Tough question in this thread:eek:
 
...Thinking about what I would have done had it been my -6 and he asked me for a ride ...I'm honestly ashamed to say I don't know. Knowing my -6 would be a big factor.

I'll answer my own question... I'd offer to drive him in my pickup!!!! :D hmmm, I don't know if I feel any better about myself:rolleyes:
 
over weight paasengers

Flying an rv4 passenger weight is cridical be kind, but be firm, and stay within your CG limits and Gross weight. If you loose a friend over saying they are tooo heavy so be it. It is better then having an incident.
 
I wonder if this was the same type of conversation that occurred while designing the RV-14?
 
Thread drift.

This isn't a thread about whether it's OK to fly over gross. It's a thread about nice ways to say to a person they're too fat to fly.

Just to be clear.
 
As I've worked on building my RV over the last few years, I'm somewhat amused at all the little things we do to remove weight here and there. All those little lightening holes, bits of metal removed here and there at every opportunity. Don't get me wrong, I've done every one of them. (Does anyone know how much it all adds up to? My estimate is... perhaps a few pounds at most.) But it occurred to me one day that a pilot in the seat becomes part of the airplane, and the easiest way to remove a significant amount of weight from the flying aircraft is to trim it off of my own waist! My wife and I have been on a health kick the last few years, and I trimmed 25 lbs off quite easily. (I won't give out my wife's numbers.) I just had to say that building the RV has been the single motivating factor to get me in better health.

More to the point of the thread, I had to ask my daughter-in-law her weight a while back before her and my son could board a friend's 172. I did it as tactfully as I could, saying I needed both of their weights for the pilot to run the W & B numbers, but I still go the "Ummmm..." response from her. I finally told them I didn't need their individual numbers, just the combined for both of them. That might help, especially if you know the guy's weight, or you could ask him privately later.
 
(I won't give out my wife's numbers.)

Your a wise man.

umbridge-slap.gif
 
Last edited:
Painful, but I agree

As I've worked on building my RV over the last few years, I'm somewhat amused at all the little things we do to remove weight here and there. All those little lightening holes, bits of metal removed here and there at every opportunity. Don't get me wrong, I've done every one of them. (Does anyone know how much it all adds up to? My estimate is... perhaps a few pounds at most.) But it occurred to me one day that a pilot in the seat becomes part of the airplane, and the easiest way to remove a significant amount of weight from the flying aircraft is to trim it off of my own waist! My wife and I have been on a health kick the last few years, and I trimmed 25 lbs off quite easily. (I won't give out my wife's numbers.) I just had to say that building the RV has been the single motivating factor to get me in better health.

More to the point of the thread, I had to ask my daughter-in-law her weight a while back before her and my son could board a friend's 172. I did it as tactfully as I could, saying I needed both of their weights for the pilot to run the W & B numbers, but I still go the "Ummmm..." response from her. I finally told them I didn't need their individual numbers, just the combined for both of them. That might help, especially if you know the guy's weight, or you could ask him privately later.

My wife has been making the point to me that if I am spending all of this time and money to build a plane, I need to maintain a healthy weight so that I can have a long and healthy flying career. Sigh, off to the gym I go....
 
Somewhat recently ....

...i had a similar quandary. I told my VERY hefty friend (maybe under 300, but certainly not by much) that the difficulty would be in his exiting the right seat. I explained he would have to be able - using his arms - to press himself up out of the seat using the right cabin rail (NOT the armrest!) and the seat back. I told him I was concerned that he'd not be able to do that. He agreed and demured on the ride idea. Our friendship - and my RV - are safe for now. :eek:
 
Bob,

As someone who's struggled with weight since college, not severely, but *enough* to feel crappy about it, I would feel disappointed in myself if someone told me I was too fat to fly with them. I mean, you can't argue with something like this. You're not making fun of him-- it's just a simple fact. Plane is too small, or he's too big. If I were in your brother's position, I would want the conversation to be something like, "It will mean a LOT to me to take you flying in this airplane that I built with your encouragement. But it's just not safe for us to go up in it because I can't move the controls all the way, (or we'll have CG issues,) you won't be comfortable, and I'd hate for you to get hurt climbing in or getting out of it." Yeah, it might really sting at first. But it would also save you both from a potentially unsafe situation in the short term, and maybe even motivate your brother to get healthy. It would be an awesome goal. By the way... Even though that joke a few posts ago about the jet manufacturer was funny, I can't type what I'd say on this family site if a pilot simply told me "NO FAT CHICKS!" :D
 
not just weight and cg

I really want to take my Dad up, he's been up in all my other airplanes. I'd love to go to OSH with him but....his thighs will prevent stick motion.
 
So, my brother is driving with his son from Massachusetts to San Francisco and calls me yesterday in Indiana to ask if they can "stop by" to watch the football game.

Minnesota, for the record, is NOT on the way to San Francisco, but 6 or 7 hours later, there they were at the door.

We watched the game and on his way out of town (heading for Sioux Falls for the night), I convince them to stop by the hangar to see the plane.

"I'll never fit in there," he says.
 
Back
Top