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RV-8 Andy Karmy

akarmy

Well Known Member
RV-8 Andy Karmy - N898TT

Initial design specs for my RV-8 are to keep it simple include the following:

  • RV-8 slow build kit
  • Aerosport 0-360-A2A with Superior Roller Lifters
  • Dual P-Mag electronic ignitions - EI Commander to monitor them
  • Catto 3 blade composite prop - 68x76 Gen2 with Nickel edges
  • Dynon Skyview 10" with ADS-B & Transponder
  • Garmin GTR200 with integrated intercom
  • Aeroelectric style fuse based electrical system
  • AeroLED strobe & position lights
  • AeroLED Aerosun VX wingtip taxi & landing lights
  • Grove airfoiled aluminum gear
  • Oregon Aero seats
  • Crow seat belts with rotary buckle
  • DJM two lever throttle quadrant
  • JDair tailwheel & steering link
  • Skybolt cowl fasteners
  • and many more decisions I have not yet uncovered

History:
This will be my 4th homebuilt. Starting with a miniMAX ultralight, then a RV-9A, Currently flying a Kitfox 7, and now building a RV-8. Over the 700 hours I flew the RV-9A i learned a few things about what I wanted. I flew formation with it, got interested in aerobatics, and flew alone quite a bit. All that lead me back to the RV-8 as a better match to my needs. We will see how that works out, but it sure seems like fun from where I sit.​

Building:
I'm building in my attached 2 car garage at home. So much easier to work on it every day not having to drive to the airport. I'm using about half of the garage at this point and should be able to keep it contained in that for the most part. I'm lucky I can move parts to the hangar as they are finished to keep some room to move around.​

Turns out, I'm using most of the entire garage at this point and even had to take a trailer load of woodworking tools out to the hangar to make room! Seems you can never have too much room while building.​


Links:

So, on with the show, let's get building.
 
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Tail Kit

This is where it always starts, at least for those of us lucky enough to drive to Vans to pickup our parts.

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Tail continued

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Following some posts on making the brake, I used 2x6 lumber and used it on edge which made it much easier to get the leverage on it for the bend. I also added a 3ft clamp to the 2x6 to help pull it down.

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Ah yes the dreaded trim tab bending. Also lot's of good ideas and advice on this topic if you just search for it. I really just followed the plans and bent the tabs using some oak forms and double sided carpet tape. I used the rivet gun and flat set to finish it off.

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Tools

The DRDT turned skin dimpling into a quiet peaceful, almost fun activity. Sure is heavy!

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Why did no one tell me about this amazing tool during my RV-9A build? So much easier! Highly recommended.

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This is my back rivet plate that I built during the RV-9A construction. It's 1/4" plate I got at the metal shop and made the holder to surround it. Just make sure you stay between the lines and you are good to go. Took a lot of belt sanding to polish it up nice and smooth initially.

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My new best friend, the tungsten bucking bar. Small and heavy, just what is needed in a number of situations.

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Wings

How do you transport the wing kit home in your Volvo station wagon? With your trailer and some creative strapping. I think the Vans guys much cringe with all the creative pickup solutions that show up outside their back door. This worked out great and was very solid for the trip home up the freeway.

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First you need to do the inventory, best if you can get some help!

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Lots of fluting to do as you get parts ready.

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Wings continued

Wings are in the jigs, building two of them in parallel with about 4 ft between the posts. This has worked out great and gives just the right amount of working space as you rivet the top skins on.

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Nose D-section going on. The only think challenging is getting them riveted to the spar! Some have used pop rivets, but we stuck it out with the gun and some creative language.

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Some proof I was at least in the general area of the parts being put together.

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Safe-Air pitot mast fit into the skin. This was fairly easy to get in place using the provided templates to cut the skin hole.

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Z-Brackets

Using the Hurlbut memorial method, as documented by lots of other people (like Brad Oliver's rv-7 factory site), I attacked the z-brackets for the tanks. This is a great method which easily allows for a perfect alignment of the tanks and easy install later on.

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Fuel Tanks

On to the tanks. They start out with the z-bracket alignment and parts going onto the spar (as you know) :)

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Then, out comes the Proseal. YEA. Now we are having fun.

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Using the Rick Galati method is sure a timesaver and much cleaner also.

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Leaking Tank Baffle

So the sad news was one tank had major problems with the rear baffle seal. It seems that I didn't get the line of sealant close enough to the rivet line and it sagged before i got the baffle in place, leaving literally clear space between the baffle and the skin. So after reviewing the archives, I dove in and opened up the tank and fixed it! The other tank sealed just fine by putting the pro seal line touching the rivet line and using a bit more (thicker bead).

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These are the Vans "fuel tank repair" covers. Already cut and punched.

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Wings continued

Top skins done. Just about ready to close out the wings.

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I had very good luck using a normal fixed flat mushroom set and a bucking partner on the other side of the wing. We also used blue masking tape over the set which we changed out after about every 15 rivets. The end result was a smooth scratch free, dent free surface that we feel pretty good about.

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Routing the wire runs

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Ok, and with that I am caught up. That's the first 4 months, now progress might be reported more in real time from here on out? :)
 
Holy cow, an RV8 built in a day :). Wait, is she sniffing those wing ribs? My kind of girl!
Every time I have to thumb wrestle for our -9, I can't wait to get back to the shop to work on MY -8.
 
Andy,
Great to see your another RV project! When I was building my RV9A I was using your website extensively. Thank you for your time putting the illustrations online.
 
What energy and enthusiasm!

Good to see you on another build Andy. I looked at your site regularly when you were building your 9 and I was working on my 7. Thanks for taking the time to document so thoroughly.
 
Andy,

The image of the wing build reminded me of one thing I wished I had done at that stage. The right wing bottom skin as a NACA inlet for back seat fresh air - I wished I had hooked up the flex hose to it and just left it laying in there rather than doing it later. It can be done after the wing is installed reaching in through the bottom access holes, but it would be much easier to do it while the wing is open.
 
Andy,

The image of the wing build reminded me of one thing I wished I had done at that stage. The right wing bottom skin as a NACA inlet for back seat fresh air - I wished I had hooked up the flex hose to it and just left it laying in there rather than doing it later. It can be done after the wing is installed reaching in through the bottom access holes, but it would be much easier to do it while the wing is open.

I was looking at that last night. Of course with the wing kit I don't even have the plastic part to attach to the wing skin yet let alone the scat tubing. I assume that's in a future kit? Maybe I need to dig into the fuselage kit box and see if it's there so I can get it drilled and fit up before closing that skin.
 
question on your fuel tank repairs

I noticed in your pictures that you went "all in" on the fuel tank repair holes in the baffle and on the outer tank rib. Did you literally have leaks in all of those bays or did you not have enough confidence in your sealing job in general which dictated that decision? I ask, because I just completed my fuel tanks and my left tank has a about a 1" section that is leaking at the lower baffle flange. I've ordered the fuel tank repair kit, but I'm really wondering if I should cut more holes in the baffle and ensure the baffle to skin is sealed well for all of the bays. I'm just trying to build confidence as I don't want to plan to take the tanks off later if I can prevent it now. I've read alot of the leaking fuel tank threads, but I don't think I've seen comments around the "worry of leaks later" or basically the thought process of others on this, or maybe those that have just repaired what was leaking only to find other leaks appeared later that maybe they wish they would have just "cut holes" the first time.

What decisions have others made on this? Just repair what is leaking or do more while introducing potentially more leak paths?
 
I noticed in your pictures that you went "all in" on the fuel tank repair holes in the baffle and on the outer tank rib. Did you literally have leaks in all of those bays or did you not have enough confidence in your sealing job in general which dictated that decision? I ask, because I just completed my fuel tanks and my left tank has a about a 1" section that is leaking at the lower baffle flange. I've ordered the fuel tank repair kit, but I'm really wondering if I should cut more holes in the baffle and ensure the baffle to skin is sealed well for all of the bays. I'm just trying to build confidence as I don't want to plan to take the tanks off later if I can prevent it now. I've read alot of the leaking fuel tank threads, but I don't think I've seen comments around the "worry of leaks later" or basically the thought process of others on this, or maybe those that have just repaired what was leaking only to find other leaks appeared later that maybe they wish they would have just "cut holes" the first time.

What decisions have others made on this? Just repair what is leaking or do more while introducing potentially more leak paths?

In my case yes all bays outboard of the first one were leaking at the rear baffle to some extent or another. You could see it with the soap and air test. The cause was the bead of proseal being too low combined with it sagging from gravity there by leaving the skin to baffle junction clear without proseal. When I opened up the first bay you could literally see 1/8 of clear metal above the proseal bead?. hum. :)

I would only open the bays that show problems, there is no reason to open any additional areas just to check. Lastly I see no "risk of more leaks" from opening the bay and using the cover plate. The cover is well secured on a flat surface and easy to get a good seal using closed pop rivets and proseal. It was nice having a pneumatic pop rivet gun since there were a lot of rivets to pop!
 
Flaps

Time to build some flaps. Following the instructions gives me a nice chuckle. "The Flaps are considered to be the easiest parts on the plane to build" I think these things are thrown in for our benefit as little motivational topics, like a fortune cookie. The flaps like everything else seem to have their unique requirements but true they are not that hard to build.

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Made some basic jigs to hold things in place from the spar crates. Nice to be able to reuse some of the wood as you go along.

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I scratched my head for awhile trying to figure out how in the world I was going to reach those rivets way down deep in that dark hole to buck them. Hum? Ya till i finally went back to the plans. Oh, MK319BS, blind rivets. That's easy! :)

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Another favorite thing is when the instructions and most every build site talk about something like the need to shim parts out because they won't fit right. They seem to have fixed that, because all of the ribs on both flaps fit perfectly with no shims to the bottom skin/spar.

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Hum

Doh? looks like my QC is lacking a bit? middle of one of the bottom skins.

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The funny thing is I was just talking about this exact situation and how to recover to a fellow EAA member at this months meeting.
 
Hinged Wingtips on RV-8

Time to get those wingtips done!

First I read up on all the great tips about how to do the wingtips. I decided on using hinges as something different as I used #6 screws on my 9A last time. Here are some links to read if you are interested.


First step is to add additional holes between the existing screw locations to double the rivets holding on the hinge.

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Then you need some hinge. Neat trick to use one side wider than the other to move the seam line underneath the tip fiberglass. This eliminates the hinge from being seen between the seam line.

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Then you drill the hinge to the wingtip, both sides of the hinge attached in place, because we are going to cut the hinge flange off and use it as the spacer next.

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I cut the flange off with a hack saw blade handheld. Was not the easiest thing to do, but worked fine. I tried my jig saw but it was too brutal and wanted to chip the gelcoat.

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I find it useful to keep the hinge halves attached together while riveting in place to help keep the eyelets straight and bend free. Worked just fine here.

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All that's left is to bond the hinge half to the tip and rivet it in place. Stand by...
 
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Wings done

Oh ya, and got the bottom skins done this last weekend! We were able to get to all the rivets with the wings still hanging from the wing jig. Made it easy to have them stable and in place. I did the 9A with them flat on the bench, which didn't seem any easier...

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Then it was time to take them down from the jig and clear out the space for the next steps.

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Like mounting the flaps and ailerons! Again I found it best to keep the hinge assembled while fitting, drilling, and riveting in place. Unlike some I didn't have any trouble with the hinge size and edge distance, the normal hinge worked just fine and everything lined up nicely on the TE with the Aileron.

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Aligning the Ailerons using the tooling holes.

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Fuselage Kit

Well, on to the next kit. Some assembly required?

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Got my wife out in the garage to help with the inventory. Lots of parts in the Fuselage box.

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Bending the firewall using a digital smart level.

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and here's the first mistake made on the kit that I couldn't find a way around and had to order new parts. I ignored the ample warnings in the instructions and countersinked too many holes in the under floor angles that support the gear towers. I put in the order on my mobile phone at 11pm and had new parts a few days later to keep working. Using tape over the holes now to remind me not to mess with them.

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Gear towers coming together.

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Firewall angles and parts. I was able to back rivet all the firewall rivets using my 12x12x1/4 steel plate.

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Front baggage area coming together.

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My version of the rear panel trap door. I just followed a number of others that have gone before. I believe it was called the "Jay mod" on a video Doug had posted.

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I know this is your fourth build and all, but if you pick up the pace only slightly, you might be finished before New Years! :)

As with your -9 site, I learn much from your posts. Thanks Andy, and have fun.

--
Stephen
 
I know this is your fourth build and all, but if you pick up the pace only slightly, you might be finished before New Years! :)

As with your -9 site, I learn much from your posts. Thanks Andy, and have fun.

--
Stephen

I'll get right on that! :) Thanks for the kind words.

I really have to say that it's VAF that gives the edge to keeping up the build speed. I must spend hundreds of hours in the deep archives before I ever go into the garage (during times when I can't build) so I'm ready to go when I get there.

What continues to amaze me is almost anything you can think of has lots of posts about it already, you just have to sleuth them out of the archives. There is so much good knowledge here it's just fantastic.
 
Fuselage center section

Moving along with the center section of the fuselage.

First the structure goes together.
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Then the skins go on. (maybe not quite in this order) :)
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Then they get joined up with the front fuselage section.
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and finally the tail cone goes on.
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All this was fairly easy work, just following the instructions. This new RV-8 Kit sure is nicely put together!
 
Cleco love

After building the fuel tanks I had a bucket of clecos covered in proseal. While they sort of worked, they were hard to get into the punched holes. So I took a wire wheel to them, and a bit of light oil. WOW, they are like new? Should have done this awhile ago.

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RV-8 longaron drilling

Time to drill the longarons to the firewall angles. Kind of critical holes which I have seen examples of being messed up in the past.

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Using some cargo straps to hold everything in place, and some c-clamps to hold the longaron to the steel brackets, everything lined up just fine.

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The holes came out about as perfect as you could ask for. Nicely centered on the brackets like they should be.

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RV-8 Cleco Edition

Here's the fuselage just about wrapped up with the initial fit and drill. Lot's of clecos required for this stage. Lucky for me I was able to borrow some more from a local builder.

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Hi Andy
Great looking work you have there!!
Keep going on!!

Out of curiosity, can you measure for me the length and width of the fuselage in that stage of the build?

As I'm building in a small single garage, I'd like to organise my workspace accordingly.

Many thanks,
 
Here's the fuselage just about wrapped up with the initial fit and drill. Lot's of clecos required for this stage. Lucky for me I was able to borrow some more from a local builder.

Just curious -- how many clecos do you have / borrowed at this stage of the build?

Looking good!!
 
Just curious -- how many clecos do you have / borrowed at this stage of the build?

Looking good!!

I had about 400 3/32 as I built both wings at the same time. These were my originals from my 9A project and worked fine for the 8 doing both wings and now the fuselage. I used every one of them on the fuselage.

I only had 100 1/8 which were enough for the 9A, but on the 8? not so much. I borrowed 300 more and used every one of those as well.

This is really an area where borrowing is great as there is only a short period of time where you hit the high-water mark and need all these. Then after that you start putting things together for good and you don't need as many.
 
Hi Andy
Great looking work you have there!!
Keep going on!!

Out of curiosity, can you measure for me the length and width of the fuselage in that stage of the build?

As I'm building in a small single garage, I'd like to organise my workspace accordingly.

Many thanks,

It's about 15ft long by 3ft wide at this point. Plus room to walk around and work. I think it will fit in the 1 car bay, but you won't have much room for tools or another table...
 
Seat Brace Installation

Last night I got the cockpit side decks drilled (lots of clamping and head scratching on that one.) See the details in this thread.

Then I moved on to the Seat Brace Weldment. I had read many woes of it not fitting right and having edge distance problems with the holes. The key seems to be clamping it tightly to the longarons to get the alignment right.

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I had it all clamped in place and drilled everything out per the plans. It lined up just fine and the holes were just where they were supposed to be.

Rear brace leg
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Front brace leg
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3-Cheers for the Fuselage!

This fuselage business is what keeps me going on my wings. Wings are soooo boring!!!
It looks great Andy! Keep up the good work.
Tom
 
I had about 400 3/32 as I built both wings at the same time. These were my originals from my 9A project and worked fine for the 8 doing both wings and now the fuselage. I used every one of them on the fuselage.

I only had 100 1/8 which were enough for the 9A, but on the 8? not so much. I borrowed 300 more and used every one of those as well.

This is really an area where borrowing is great as there is only a short period of time where you hit the high-water mark and need all these. Then after that you start putting things together for good and you don't need as many.

Thanks for the info!
 
It's about 15ft long by 3ft wide at this point. Plus room to walk around and work. I think it will fit in the 1 car bay, but you won't have much room for tools or another table...

Thanks Andy!!!

The garage is roughly 9 X 19 feet, and if I deduct the worktables and paintbooth, I have about 5 X 16 feet of free floor space.

Very tight, but I'm slowly becoming an expert at maximizing my small workshop.

Have to admit though that on more than one occasion, after hitting part of my body on a protruding object, I did say out loud two or three chosen words that you don't want to say in the presence of kids or ladies... :eek:

Really can't wait to finish assembling the 8 in proper hangar space!!! :D
 
All apart again

and now comes that part where motivation is challenged? Time to tear apart all the fuselage parts and debur, dimple, countersink, prime, etc?

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Andy
I have not yet completed my SB wings and I wish I would not have seen this post. It makes my morale sag a bit knowing I have that look forward to......but I wish I was at your stage of the game! press on!
 
Andy
I have not yet completed my SB wings and I wish I would not have seen this post. It makes my morale sag a bit knowing I have that look forward to......but I wish I was at your stage of the game! press on!

Yep, any progress is good progress! :) It's that stage for me, where I'm glad to have an office job 9-5 so my hands can rest up a bit for the next build session!

On the positive side, the fuselage is not as repetitive as the wings, so you have that going for you. and there's no proseal! :) YEA.
 
Finish Kit Arrives

Finish kit & FWF kit is in the house?

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Also, Engine, Prop, extension, and exhaust ordered and being built up over the next few months?

Now I have to find space in the garage for all this stuff...
 
Fuselage riveting

Wrapping up the basic fuselage riveting. Starting the Canoe stage I guess you would call it!

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This last weekend I mounted the Grove air foiled gear using all the great tips you can find by doing a few searches on VAF. Made it fairly easy other than the actual drilling part, which was quite a bit of work! Nice to have that job behind me. On to fitting out the fuselage.
 
Andy;
Thanks for posting that pic! I needed to look inside the floor to arrange for some muffler mount points.
You sure are organized and dedicated. That RV-8 will be done in no time.
 
Andy;
Thanks for posting that pic! I needed to look inside the floor to arrange for some muffler mount points.
You sure are organized and dedicated. That RV-8 will be done in no time.

Let me know if you need a custom pic Scott. Happy to shoot one while it's all open.
 
Some Progress

Well, I took a bit of a break and installed a set of new wingtip lights from AeroLEDs called the Aerosun VX.

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Then I bit the bullet and installed the HS reinforcement doublers per the recent SB.

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and lastly, I put some wheels on my rotisserie frame and wheeled the fuselage into the driveway, reshuffled the entire garage around and lined it up with a garage door so as it gets larger and larger I can wheel it out the door. The thing I found is the RV-8 is quite a bit longer than the RV-9A I built in the same garage. It's going to be cozy when I get the engine mounted.

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So, now it's back to work on the fuselage. Soon it will be time to mount the tail according to the instructions.
 
Control hookup

Next up is connecting all the controls and setting the limit stops.

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In installed the Dynon pitch servo mount, even though I'm not installing the servos at this time. Figured it's easier now with everything open.

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The inflight adjustable pedal assembly takes a surprising amount of time to assemble. Lots of parts and moving surfaces.

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Stick pivots

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