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Probably dumb question about the Van's practice kit rivets

jdog0411

Member
Hi everyone,

Just got my Van's practice control surface kit (ordered 2 of them actually), and have a dumb question. The rivets that came with the kit are in 5 little baggies, and they are labeled "Bag Class Training 1, 2, 3" etc. They aren't labeled with the rivet code, or size in inches or anything. I can go about measuring them with a caliper to figure out what size they are I guess, but I'm not sure how accurate my caliper is.

For anyone who has put together the practice kit, do you know what rivet sizes are in what bag? This is my first time really ever laying eyes on rivets, so I'm not able to just judge their size by looking at them yet.

Thanks in advance.
 
It's been forever since I built that thing, but I do believe they are labeled. Look a little closer, It's usually in small font in the middle of the bag. I'd be surprised if they didnt label it.
 
Van's does this alot ... kits for individual sub-assemblies. I prefer to have all my parts sorted by type, so I generally split open the kits and sort the parts into individual bins.

You should have no trouble measuring the rivet length with almost any caliper. They step in 1/16" increments (except for the 3-3.5, which is 1/32 longer than the 3-3). If you're so inclined, dump all the bags in a pan and sort.

Fortunately, for the larger kits, the rivets come by the pound in their own individual bags. No sorting necessary there. After working with them a bit, you'll be able to eyeball easily the difference between a 3-3, 3-3.5 and a 3-4 rivet. You'll achieve rivet "perfect pitch".
 
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My rivet bags for the practice kit not only said Class Training Bag 1 etc.. but on the next line or two or three it listed the various sizes of rivet in that bag.
 
Unfortunately, they neglected that part on these. Just says the bag number, a barcode, and a date. Thanks Vans.

I'm almost wondering if these were originally intended for a Vans workshop or something, rather than being labeled for the practice kit.

IMG_5401-L.jpg
 
Rivets

When in doubt, insert in the hole and use a rivet gauge or caliper to measure. You should have 1.5D. If my memory is working that's about .140" protruding (.09375 X 1.5) Good practice anyway. Not that Vans would ever spec the wrong length rivet.:D
 
I think that Van's often mixes parts in a bag. They sure did for my RV_3B kits. Of course the RV-3B generally gets a hair less respect on parts than the newer kits (although good builder support).

Learn to measure the rivets. It'll pay off down the road.

Dave
 
For the solid rivets,

Separate by eye into stem width 3/32, or 1/8 inch,

Then by factory head type, flat or round,

Then separate, again by eye, by stem length.

Measure one of each group,

Should now be able to label the rivets with the correct nomenclature.

Really not a bad learning exercise.

Same approach works for pulled rivets.

Vans often put different rivets, nuts, screws, washers, (and other small stuff) in the same parts bag for my RV12 build.


-Dave
 
Unfortunately, they neglected that part on these. Just says the bag number, a barcode, and a date. Thanks Vans.

At least they look all the same (3-4's I think!). Yea, labeling is not too helpful, but they are easy to measure, either prior or with a gauge after insertion like Larry said.

Thought the early kits are have very detailed instructions, the later ones have less detailed instructions, like "install engine and avionics" ... requires extra study by the student using other sources of info (this forum, other hombuilding books, hangar neighbors, etc)

It's all about recreation and education! It's a fun journey .. roll up your sleeves and dig in!
 
By micrometer, do you mean digital caliper? Just checking to make sure there isn't a better tool for doing this.
 
Caliper

By micrometer, do you mean digital caliper? Just checking to make sure there isn't a better tool for doing this.

Caliper yes but a good one. I still use my Craftsman dial caliper. I bought several digitals over the years and every one was sloppy junk.
Several ways to measure with one too so get some help. There are two sets of jaws for inside and outside plus the end is used for depth.
 
And so it begins . . . .

Ok, guess I'll have to do this the hard way, although I suppose that is good practice.

Your first lesson learned. This way of thinking will serve you well, look, think, ask, then choose a course of action satisfying your needs for information. Otherwise, you will get new parts then ask/answer the questions.

Look at Travers.com, they will have a 4 hour sale on digital Mitutoyo digital 6" calipers. Usually around $110, get one and you will never regret it. The sale is a couple times a year. I got one for home when my 40 yr old dial caliper went to the hangar with the plane. It was $130.

EDIT: Oh, when you finish building the kit, drill out all the rivets and do it again. That will complete your learning with the kit. It's a skill you will definitely need.
 
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By micrometer, do you mean digital caliper? Just checking to make sure there isn't a better tool for doing this.

Yes, this tool will come in handy many times throughout the build. I use mine a lot to check the thickness of aluminum sheet, I always double check drill bit size before drilling. The size wears off.
 
Inventory...

If you read the inventory it itemises the bag and contents. Or at least it did when mine arrived.

Mine came with blind rivets mixed in with one size of solid rivets, easy to separate them out.
 
FYI- when you get the "real" kits, the hardware bags all have an inventory number. You can reference the packing list to see what is in each bag.
 
RV Training Project bag contents

I just found a Class Project inventory from 1/14/13. Here are the bag contents it lists:

Bag 1: AN426AD3-3 rivets .02 lbs
Bag 2: AN426AD3-3.5 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 3: AN426AD3-4 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 4: AN426AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 6 AD-41-ABS pop rivets
Bag 5: AN470AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 2 MSP-42 pop rivets

I found this today while inventorying a box of papers from the original builders of my "new" RV10.

Maybe it will match what you have. Regardless, have a blast building!
 
I just found a Class Project inventory from 1/14/13. Here are the bag contents it lists:

Bag 1: AN426AD3-3 rivets .02 lbs
Bag 2: AN426AD3-3.5 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 3: AN426AD3-4 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 4: AN426AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 6 AD-41-ABS pop rivets
Bag 5: AN470AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 2 MSP-42 pop rivets

I found this today while inventorying a box of papers from the original builders of my "new" RV10.

Maybe it will match what you have. Regardless, have a blast building!

Thank you sir! I believe that does match whats in the kits I got. That helps a lot.
 
Thank you very much, the bags I received and inventory was just listed as Bag 1,2,3..... This helps!
Ferdara


I just found a Class Project inventory from 1/14/13. Here are the bag contents it lists:

Bag 1: AN426AD3-3 rivets .02 lbs
Bag 2: AN426AD3-3.5 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 3: AN426AD3-4 rivets .01 lbs
Bag 4: AN426AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 6 AD-41-ABS pop rivets
Bag 5: AN470AD4-4 rivets .01 lbs, 2 MSP-42 pop rivets

I found this today while inventorying a box of papers from the original builders of my "new" RV10.

Maybe it will match what you have. Regardless, have a blast building!
 
No dumb questions

Hey "jdog0411" You didn't ask a dumb question, Because you asked it.
I always maintain that the dumb questions are the ones that DON'T get asked.
This is the best forum on the planet for RV builders. And questions are welcome.
I've been on the surface of this planet long enough and had to many people around me do to much stupid stuff because they couldn't/wouldn't ask the question.
Your luck may vary though.
Art
 
I realize at this point you may be in the mode of not spending any more money than necessary until you decide if this is the thing for you. However, if you proceed you will want the right tool for the job. Normally for me as part of the standard riveting process I check the rivet length before setting the rivet. In some cases the Van's specified length is off a little or I may have some custom piece that I'm installing that doesn't have a callout. For that reason I have one of these rivet gauges.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averyrivetlengthgauge.php?clickkey=9219

It makes it quick to check the length and I adjust as needed. There is nothing more annoying than using a rivet that is too short and then having to drill it out. As a veteran now of messing up rivets I can easily fix them. As a beginner its not as easy, but it can be done.

These gauges are also helpful to check your set rivets.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/averyrivetgauge.php?clickkey=9219

Aircraft Spruce also have some cheaper ones, but these are the ones that I have.
 
This is part of the fun of building. Wait till you get to the fuselage! Here's a bag with 200 rivets. 196 of them are AN426AD4-4 and 4 of them are AN426AD4-5. On your mark, get set, go!
 
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